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Rock Rod Gods...got a Q

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by tRustyK5, Sep 2, 2002.

  1. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    On my D60 front with stock steering...if I got a Rock Rod that would fit would I be able to use it when I do the cross-over/High steer conversion in a few months? I have a slightly bent tie rod right now and would prefer not to have to buy a stock one for a short term situation.

    Rene
     
  2. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I'm not a "Rock Rod God" but I'll take a whack. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

    As long as you keep it in the stock location, should be no trouble. I was going to do high steer but decided it was not worth it, so I just built a super heavy tie rod to protect my ram. If you do go for the high steer, it will almost certainly be the wrong length but, I guess that depends on the arms you use.
     
  3. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Just went and looked, if you use the Avalanche arms, the relocated tie rod (for high steer) would be about 4-6" too short when moved up...
     
  4. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Dammit/forums/images/icons/smile.gif I guess I'll have to take the 'smile' out of this tie-rod for now then. I want to go high steer when I do the cross-over.

    Thanks Russ!

    Rene
     
  5. Butch

    Butch 1/2 ton status

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    With avalanche arms the tie rod is shorter when you go to high steer. If you have one made now you can shorten it later and still use it.
     
  6. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Oops!! He's right, I got that backwards! The avalanche arms are inboard of the knuckle arms so the "high steer" rod would be *shorter*. So, yeah, you could cut it off and rethread when you go high steer... Sad thing is, one of my original replies (you can check if you get email notifications) suggested that you could cut it off when you move up. Then I reread my post and convinced myself that I had it backwards, so I edited it as it is now... /forums/images/icons/frown.gif Sorry.
     
  7. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    I would not even consider hysteer. After seeing Boss and Pete on the M trail at Paragon the other week I see no reason for it. It does not get much worse wheeling then what they were on and the tie rod was not much of an issue as a diff guard is. /forums/images/icons/cool.gif
     
  8. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

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    Out here in the desert its not much of an issue either. My main reason for wanting to go hi-steer is more out of preperation since my cross-over will require half of it anyhow, might as well do the other side too. But, in places like Tellico, where youre bouncing around on slick boulders I could see why everyone converts it over.
     
  9. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    I run Tellico multiple times a year and never had an issue. The tie rods I have seen fail were mostly due to a tire getting wedged and the mojo put to the wheel and something had to give...It beat that giving than the steering box getting ripped free of the frame.
     
  10. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    Then I reread my post and convinced myself that I had it backwards, so I edited it as it is now... Sorry.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    It's all good Russ...I try not to ask questions at the last possible moment. I was hoping that the Rock Rod could be 'adjusted' (you know...without cutting and re-threading)

    So I have a few people who's opinion i really value saying don't bother with high steer...and a few others whose opinion i also value saying high steer is worth it.

    So lets hear the pro's and cons of high steer versus the stock location with a rock rod. Does the geometry change much with high steer? What I mean is the distance from where the rod attaches to the pivot point...is it much diferent? Someone PM'd me saying that was his concern with going high steer.

    For the short term I'll use my stock tie-rod...until I get more info.

    Rene
     
  11. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    The one big thing I don't like about the hysteer is the rod ends. Look how long they are. Also look at what Steve broke on the UAV at Moab. Boss and I talked about this subject alot in the past and we both feel it is not worth doing. Also I would rather put a tie rod into a rock instead of my axle housing.
     
  12. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Sounds like a good idea. For a temp fix, I would bend it straight and weld on a piece of 1/4 angle to keep it there. Once bent, it will bend again much easier so that should help.

    As for high steer {shrug}, I didn't think it was worth the trouble. Hydro assit becomes a PIA (see Steve's adventures) and the extra hardware is extra $$$$. Also, clearances are tight and your options for mounting are limited even with the Avalanche arms. Steve had to mount his tie rod on the inside (closer to the kink pin) so that the drag link would have the right arc radius for a full swing. Putting it outboard caused even more problems for mounting the ram, and, IIRC, it interfered with something else, but don’t remember the details. His posts are somewhere in the archives, you might want to look it up. Anyway, on Rusty Nail (BB02) Steve snapped a DLE of clean (he’s using DLEs on the tie rod, not TREs). Tire up against a rock wall, trying to turn with hydro assist, POP! With the tie rod closer to the pivot, it has less leverage on the tire/knuckle. Maybe it wouldn’t have snapped without the mechanical disadvantage? Just food for thought.

    Now, my opinion on keeping it low. Hydro assist is easy. There is no interference or jockeying to make it work. I’ve actually tried a couple of different locations for my DLE on the Avalanche arm (couldn’t do that with high steer) to get the box to hit its limit shortly after the knuckle limits I’ve set. The main reason to put it up high is to eliminate the potential for getting intimate with a rock (or otherwise bent). Sure, most catastrophic failures of a tie rod are when the tires are in a serious bind. But, IMO, most tie rods that bow up when in a bind do so because they were slightly bent when contacting a rock or something. Any bend (I’m sure you know, but, for the benefit of others) dramatically weakens the rod. So, instead of dealing with what I perceive to be the problems of high steer, I just build a “gawd awful” tie rod. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif Mine is 1.75 OD with a 3/8” wall and uses 1 ton TREs. I’ve got gouges in it where I smacked the wee out of it on Upper Helldorado but it’s still as straight as ever. I think the knuckles will likely give first, though that’s not necessarily a *good* thing. /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif Plus, it acts like a diff guard! 2 for the price of one! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

    I wrestled with this decision for a few weeks. Hope my rambling helps...
     
  13. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    Also I would rather put a tie rod into a rock instead of my axle housing.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I suppose the option really comes down to that doesn't it? Personally I think the housing is tougher and at a low speed crawl it wouldn't get damaged like a tie rod would. I'm really on the fence at this point...can you tell?/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

    Rene
     
  14. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Russ...you have a pm

    Rene
     
  15. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Hehe, Rob just posted pics that show a pretty good view of my setup. Take a look at this. For more detail, click the link that says "View Full Size". BTW, that's my boy driving in that one...
     
  16. azblazor

    azblazor 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Rene,
    You aren't gonna let Russ get away with suggesting welding angle iron onto a tierod are you! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif /forums/images/icons/smirk.gif /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
     
  17. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    What!? You don't like my ghetto rigging? /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif That's how my whole rig is put together... /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif
     
  18. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    You aren't gonna let Russ get away with suggesting welding angle iron onto a tierod are you

    [/ QUOTE ]

    LOL...I just sorta ignored that part, sorry Russ. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif Mine had a very slight smile in it so I'm not that worried. I'll probably just adjust out the 'toe' for the very short term until I get a Rock Rod built. Russ was kind enough to pass on a few links and part numbers so I think i have a plan now. So far the plan is to sneak into Russ's yard and steal his...I'm fairly confident he knows how to build another by now/forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    Rene
     
  19. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Yeah, my suggestion was not intended as a “repair” or ideal solution. Just an option for keeping it together with less chance of bending it again till you can get something better. One of the local guys (Matt, norulz) bent his tie rod repeatedly. Once bent, it just bends easier and easier till replaced (in part, because it can never be made “straight” again). That's what he did (actually, it was a small piece of "I" beam) till he could get a new tie rod. Better than just a "trail fix" (since yours is not broken) but definitely not what I would run for long. If the tie rod were actually broken, then that would be good enough only to get you off the trail, but no further.

    That said, am I missing something? Is there something inherently wrong with my suggestion? Seems like a good reinforcing option if it were positioned like “LO” against the rod, c-clamped in tight, and stitch welded on both sides. Should keep it from frowning (or smiling) at you till you can build a new one… /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif If there is an inherent problem, I want to know before I make another stupid suggestion. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif
     
  20. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    The only prob I had with it was it's a daily driver for now and won't see any wheeling till the rock-rod in on there. I don't really want to be running around with a chunk of angle welded to my tie-rod. It really isn't that bent anyways. In fact the heat from welding it would probably warp it worse than it is now...

    As a trail fix or in an 'emergency' I'd do it and replace it at my earliest convenience...

    Rene
     

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