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Roll cage... tied into the frame??

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by ChevyCaGal, Apr 23, 2003.

  1. ChevyCaGal

    ChevyCaGal 3/4 ton status

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    I'm looking for pics of roll cages that are tied into the frame. Mainly pics of how it mounts up. Really anything... I may get bold this summer. I've actually stopped burning welds into globs. I made a nice one, yeah, I know, shocked me too, weld. I was thinking hmmm, maybe I'll do a cage someday. But not just any cage if I do it. Just so happens my friend has a tube bender I didn't know about. Actually, it's her dads... who lives 2 blocks away. It's kinda old and funky, but hey, it works... I might be able to bribe him to borrow it. Like I said, I'm looking for something that shows how it's done.... how the seats would be mounted to it etc... Probably more of a real chore then I would be up for honestly, but what they hey, never know. So far I can't find exactly what I want for my year. Also, I hear good and bad about this. So, any other imput would really be nice. Thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  2. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I may get bold this summer. I've actually stopped burning welds into globs. I made a nice one, yeah, I know, shocked me too, weld. I was thinking hmmm, maybe I'll do a cage someday.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    First off let me commend you on taking the initiative to start looking into making something yourself. I can remember way back when, when I made my first item. It really made me feel good. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    I have found various rollcages across the net. For the most part I have not found anything with good quality pictures for the tying into the frame. So I'm not much help there.

    However, I have helped a friend with his cage and we did tie it into the frame. We used the same tubing that was made out of the cage and utilized poly bushings to help with vibration. He opted to bolt to the frame rather than welding it, which I thought was a good idea.

    As far as your welding gobs? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Get real good at welding before you attempt to make something that your life depends on. I'd suggest taking a couple classes at your local JC. I plan on taking a couple myself, never can learn too much stuff.

    Anyways, I hope this helps. Sorry bout not having any pics readily available.
     
  3. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I always come down on the opposite side of what others say about roll cages. But I don't like tying them to the frame. I reinforce the bottom of the floor so there is no way the cage can punch through, and the new square tube sub-frame bridges the frame rails so that you are completely enclosed. I did a fairly elaborate setup for my truggy, and I'm doing a simplified version for my son in his new K5. I don't think tying to the frame is necessary in a off-road vehicle for anything less than all out, high speed, desert race and tying to the frame can have a negative impact if you inadvertently make things *too* rigid (locally). Not to mention causing problems with the body, leaks, squeaks, etc… There is MUCH more to tying a cage to the frame than just cutting holes, welding some mounts, and using bushings…

    See Sandman's post for more info...
     
  4. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Get out to PC early enough on Sunday morning and you can get a good look on some of the trucks.
     
  5. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    yeah, unless u r a racing ur rig or something, i dont see to much reason to tie into the frame. reinforce the floor and tie the cage into the body in 10-12 places and you're set for anything but the most extreme carnage. I mean if I rammed a moving train at 55 mph I'd want it tied into the frame... for flopping over on my side while wheelin its not really needed.

    j
     
  6. ChevyCaGal

    ChevyCaGal 3/4 ton status

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    Yeah, checking them out is what got me wondering. I was hoping to see pics of a K5 though. That Bronco was the closest thing they had.

    I was thinking that going into the frame would be a rather elaborate thing. But I'm kinda at this point like if I am gonna go for it, I go for it. I just am not impressed with the S&W cage as much as I was. Just because my friends dad rolled his CJ and he had that type. It punched through the floor. So I was wanting to do something that wouldn't do that. That's my biggest concern....
     
  7. Don

    Don 1/2 ton status

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    Yep, mount it to the frame. You would'nt want it mounted to say the floor pan, there is no support there for the weight of the vehicle. Sure it will take more work, but it will be worth it. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
     
  8. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Well, the white K5 that I took pics of a couple years ago was there last race, maybe it will be out there this weekend. We can check to see if they have a cage. By the way, I'm reading that it's suppose to rain on Sunday /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    So far, I've read two schools of thought on tieing it into the frame and I cannot really see anything wrong with them. One thing that you should think about is the pictures that showed up on PBB a few months ago of that Jeep that rolled down the mountain. The body went one way, the frame the other. The cage wasn't tied into the frame.
     
  9. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I'm not saying just tie casually to the floor like most store bought cages do, not at ALL. That said, we've got SEVERAL hard core trucks around here that have rolled pretty hard multiple times with floor mounted cages, they would have been no better off with a frame mounted cage. Use a big(er) plate to spread the force, and a good floor pan, on top of the factory supports for the body, and it will be fine. Or, step it up and reinforce the mounting points like I did. Someone mentioned the body separating from the frame, as long as the seats stay in the cage, and the cage remains intact surrounding the occupants (including the floor), who cares? In a roll of that magnitude, the ONLY concern is keeping the occupants safe, the vehicle is toast anyway, and a cage pod disconnected from the heavy chassis is arguably just as safe (or more so) than remaining attached (there are variables that could take it either way).

    If you feel you just must tie to frame, use some really flexy bushings so the cage and body can move as one, separate from the frame, and think it through very carefully. That probably means poly body mounts at the least to stiffen the body frame connection so that the cage connections have any chance of a similar rate. If the cage is fixed to the frame to rigidly, you can rip apart the body, and/or go insane with the squeaks. You should also be careful how and where you tie to the frame. Make sure it is at or near cross members so that there is less chance of the frame flexing against the mount. A poor job of tying the cage to the frame “in the name of safety” that ultimately results in a broken frame wouldn’t be a good thing.

    If I thought tying to the frame was the only way to go, you better believe my son's K5 would have it tied to the frame 50 ways. In any case, whatever you decide, good luck! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Just make sure you think through all the ramifications...
     
  10. Skigirl

    Skigirl 1/2 ton status

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    Russ, nice response.

    Steph, I saw pics of a full size with tube running from under the floor plate to the frame, with a spring eye bushing at the frame mount. I looked for about an hour to find the pic or the link, but no success yet.

    I'm looking at getting a cage done, so have been doing a bit of research too. But after Russ's answer, I think he may have a good point - maybe just better to build the seats into the cage and make the cage itself the protective bubble, which is the point. Then it becomes a matter of how much cage and what design (gussets - how many and where, cross braces, etc.) best does that.
     
  11. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Steph, this issue was sorta mentioned, but I just want to emphasize it... Do NOT weld your cage in yourself! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Building a roll cage is not a task suited for an amatuer welder. A weld can look pretty good, but then just break away when stressed. Mid-rollover is not when you want to find out that your cage isn't welded properly. Not only would your cage not protect you, but the jagged ends of tubing would become daggers in your truck. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    It's OK to fit the cage and tack weld it into place yourself, but then you should have someone that welds every day for a living perform the final welding. A roll cage is simply too important to have it fail the one time that you really need it to be strong. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    Live to wheel another day! /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif
     
  12. DesertDueler

    DesertDueler 1/2 ton status

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    I agree with Harry. Unless you are a real good welder, it could be dangerous. If a weld breaks during a rollover and that bar car move, that bar could end up killing you. As for mounting it to the frame, I only mount cages to the frame on drag cars where rules require it. As for an offroad vehicle I would say tie it to the floor and mount the seats to the cage that way you are protected. During a bad rollover, you would want the frame to leave. It would take the weight way down and would make the rollover not as violent. Trust me a 6500 lb vehicle build up momenteum bigg time. When I rolled my Jimmy, the only thing that stoped it was a rock and a tree, and that was after rolling 6 times.

    Dan
     

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