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roll cage to body or frame?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by rdn2blazer, Apr 19, 2005.

  1. rdn2blazer

    rdn2blazer 1 ton status Premium Member

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    first off, I have done all the searching for posts I'm gonna do, I have read alot on this subject. the,... dare I say majority here, is that it should be to the body. others say to body but tie into frame at the body mount points. while others still say the frame is the best. my question is why do most of the different forms of racing I'm aware of build off of the frame or main tubes in a tube chassis. I may be completly wrong, but that is what I have found to be, in most situations. I want to put my bender to use, but I want to do it right the first time. or is there more than one right way? like most situations theres more than one right way to do things, but theres hundreds of wrong ways to do something. I dont want to start you guys a argueing here, just give your openion. thank you.
     
  2. 2Dogs

    2Dogs 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I think the majority here will suggest cage to body only unless you thouroughly tie the cage to the frame front to rear with frame strengthening and/or boxing.
     
  3. RustBuket

    RustBuket 1/2 ton status

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    I agree with you on the fact that there is some confusion here.... I don't know the answer either. I was however watching some 4x4 show the other day that said you pretty much have to tie into the frame. They were building for ranger or something like that. I think it was extreme4x4 ? Anyways, I can see points for and against but don't have the practical knowledge to back it up officially.
     
  4. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

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    oh no here we go again :deal: :yikes: :shame: :doah: :1zhelp:

    it would both avoid an argument and be faster to do a search and read through has been discussed several times :D
     
  5. primr87

    primr87 Registered Member

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    I will make a guess that u could safely get away with going to the body, but that is if u dont plan on rolling it. on the other hand if u were to roll every time out(for example) u probably want it to take some abuse in this case go to frame.
     
  6. 2Dogs

    2Dogs 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    He said he has "done all the searching for posts I'm gonna do" :deal:

    :D:haha:
     
  7. kgblazerfive

    kgblazerfive keymaster Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    I being a some what of a new person to this web site I'm really surprised that there are even two points this disscussion. Why would you ever build a true roll cage and tie it into the body. If you are building a cage to save your life in any situation then tie it into the frame as well as your seat mounts and belts. If you want a cage to protect you with minimal safety then tie it into the body. Its your life, pick which one you want However the right way is the frame no matter what anybody else says after me.
     
  8. 2Dogs

    2Dogs 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    A properly built cage will protect you either way. Body only may help even - if you have a multi roll accident you want other pieces to absorb the energy rather than transmit all the energy into a solid unit - the human body would be subjected to much more shock that way. Tieing to the frame may help protect the truck if done right..... Also depends on how you are using your truck.
     
  9. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

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    ya i know i was just trying to make the argument about something different this time :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
     
  10. RustBuket

    RustBuket 1/2 ton status

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    The way I see it, is that if you have a proper cage built with seat mounts and what not and then tie it to the body, its going to protect you from the body crushing in (which is the whole point of a cage). When you tie into the frame, you get all the forces of an articulating frame running through your cage now too. What happens then is the cage gets fatigued by the constant stresses on it. This weakes your cage for when you really do need ie. when you roll. If you have a full tube frame thats not going to be flexing all too much anyways then yeah sure, tie it in, it'll only make it stronger but if you have a flexy frame, you're just going to stress it. Anyways, thats my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.
     
  11. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

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    but seriously it is dangerous to attach your cage to the frame it will weakin both the cage and the frame.

    *you can do it safely but you would probably have to spend far more than you have currently put into the vehicle including intitial cost it would involve lots and lots of fab time planning time lots of material and knowledge and that is assuming your frame is in perfect shape as it sits no bends cracks stress risers etc.

    i plan to build mine so if i were to take the worst roll imaginable and the body and frame seperate the body will be safe inside front to back side to side top to bottom.

    just my $.02

    and i was messin with ya earlier.
     
  12. PhoenixZorn

    PhoenixZorn 1/2 ton status

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    Here's a question for the masses...

    Why, if you build your cage to the frame, could you not put huge shackles at key points in the cage to allow your frame to still flex... Shackles are immensely strong, and if built right, you'd have a cage that would flex with your flexy frame, and still protect you and your passengers...

    If I'm a moron, please tell me. =)
     
  13. rdn2blazer

    rdn2blazer 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I am trying to build to handle a severe roll over or worst case senerio. I feel going to the frame and tying to the body is your strongest way to do it only if as, 2dogs said you tube front to back with alot of triangulation. by going to the frame, then tying the body in you should keep them together even in the hardest roll. you also keep the body from crushing in on you. you will loose the frame flex, but isnt that what suspension is for. I figure by having everything tied together you eliminate the problem of your body from tweeking all to hell. I understand that if you do roll hard, and enough times, you are going to stress the welds, frame, cage...everything. same for the body mounted cage. only difference is I tend to trust a 10 point or more welded frame joint that has good welds and proper gussiting meaning a tube welded at equal angles between a give joint angle so you have the full tube dia. as support vs one flat triangular gusset that can punch through a tube with a hard enough hit possibilty. than sandwiched sheet metal. if you go to the body I know your mounting plate size or diameter is where your strength comes from, but your failure point is still sheet metal vs tubing. I would rather have a cage to body then nothing for sure, but as I said I am building for a severe situation that hopefully wont happen. my truck will be a 4 passinger truck, so I will have the responsibility of other people as well.
     
  14. rdn2blazer

    rdn2blazer 1 ton status Premium Member

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    thanks guys for your feed back, keep it coming. I am interested what you guys have to say. :)
     
  15. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    I think you can do either. I tied my cage into the body only because I like that idea better. It was explained to me like this.

    Your seat is bolted to the body
    your seatbelt is bolted to the body
    therefore you are bolted to the body

    If you get in some sore of nasty rollover that the body starts to come away from the frame you want the cage to go with you which is strapped to the body. Therefore the cage should be mounted to the body.

    I think you can tie it into the fram if you want to but you must also have it securely mounted to the body also. Connect the cage to the frame via bushings to allow for some of the flexing and tweaking the frame does.

    Harley
     
  16. 2Dogs

    2Dogs 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I agree now also - racers should do the full cage to frame, rec users need the 'pod' concept of cage and body.

    And mine will be a 3 or 4 person fam cage also.

     
  17. rcurrier44

    rcurrier44 1/2 ton status

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    I just love how things get blown out of perportion :(

    A couple of years ago a fiew chevy guys (who happen to belong to this website) started saying that you should attatch your cage to the body because it will crack your frame. It is my opinion and the opinion of almost every racing division and experienced cage builder that you should attatch the cage to the frame.

    Almost every argument I have herd for attatching to the body is bogus.

    I have yet to see a frame crack because a cage was attatched to it to stiffen it. I have however seen an awfull lot of frames bend an brake without a cage. Infact most racers tie their cage to the frame to streingthen it. If this were true people would be throwing out the extra cross member next to their steering box to allow it to flex and not crack instead of stiffening the area.

    We arn't doing 220 around a race track. The last thing I need is more objects breaking off when I roll and trying to hit me. I like being able to roll it back on its wheels and keep on going instead of karting it off the mountain in severial pieces.

    PhoenixZorn: shackles arn't "immensely strong" infact a piece of flat bar is probubly one of the worst structural designs when in bending or compression.

    Tieing to the frame isn't hard or expensive. Infact you can probubly do it with most of the leftover material (drops) from the cage you just built. If you are realy motivated you can use some bushing to help soften the vibrations...but I think they are highly overrated because most rigs with their mud tires, growly v8's, loose bodys or open tops have so much noise anyway that it doesn't realy mater. Plus I would rather have my cage connections be a true canalever connection instead of a 1 DOF joint...



    Now don't get me wrong...any cage is better than no cage. But to say a body mounted cage is "better" than a frame mounted cage is total BS...
     
  18. rdn2blazer

    rdn2blazer 1 ton status Premium Member

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    can you explain canalever joint, I'm noy sure what you mean.
     
  19. onlychevy6

    onlychevy6 1/2 ton status

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    Actually a properly built cage should save your life in a roll over or what ever. Now if you tie it to the body which is fine to a certain degree. such as you might want to sell your rig at some time and keep the cage to put into another rig of the same make and model. That's fine and dandy.

    If you plan on doing hard core off-roading and rock crawling then you are going to tie to the frame for strength as well as durability.

    If you are a novice at wheeling then you probably won't be doing alot of hard core things as of yet so mounting to the body is fine.

    Also another key thing is should a rollover happen do you want to chance the cage bolts breaking off and cage go flying away while you are still rolling. Or do you want the cage Welded to the frame and the cage stay put.

    just my .02 cents
     
  20. PhoenixZorn

    PhoenixZorn 1/2 ton status

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    He meant to say Cantilever... which basically if I'm getting his meaning correctly, looks like a "r"... the racks at Home Depot that hold their lumber are Cantilever racks... they are supported at one end and by securing them properly to a base of support - i.e. the contrete floor - you end up with a very strong rack indeed.

    I think what he is saying is that welding your tube to the frame itself rather than the body creates a true cantilever support that then connects to other cantilever sections that are also attached to the frame, making up a huge cantilever system that is very very strong.

    I am going to go with rcurrier44 on this one, and rescind my previous comments.
     

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