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Roller rocker issues?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by POWERMAD, Jun 4, 2005.

  1. POWERMAD

    POWERMAD 1/2 ton status

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    I am trying to determine if I am having lifter issues or if it is simply the roller rockers are noisy.
    When I first start the engine and it is cold the engine runs quiet.
    As the temp comes up it starts to tick and as it gets warmer it gets louder.
    It goes away when the rpm's come up.
    I have never ran roller rockers so I am unsure if it is just them I am hearing.
    I have adjusted the valves 4 times and checked all the clearances with the rockers and they are not making contact with anything.
     
  2. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Are you certain that it's valvetrain noise? A small exhaust leak right at the head can sound just like a lifter ticking. And changes in temp can affect whether it's leaking or not.
     
  3. POWERMAD

    POWERMAD 1/2 ton status

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    It's definately valvetrain noise, it's coming from both heads.
    With the engine running and the covers removed it's realy noticeable. Not to mention messy.
     
  4. big pappa b

    big pappa b 3/4 ton status

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    Something worse could be a wrist pin starting to get loose. Get one of those mechanic stethescopes. Sears sells them. Start up the truck and start touching various places on the motor (while it's running of course ;) )

    Those things have been a lifesaver for me
     
  5. POWERMAD

    POWERMAD 1/2 ton status

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    It's a rebuilt engine with all new parts.
    The rods are Eagle with floating pins.
    And it is coming from both heads, definatly louder up top and with the covers off. It sorta sounds like loose lifters.
    I just changed the 30 wt oil that I had in it for the break in and put 15/40 in it.
    No difference.
    I have a high volume pump with matching pickup and pan, and have good oil pressure. I only have the gage that has the high and low but it is on the high side of the gage. With the covers off and engine running it squirts oil onto the inner fenders.
    On my lunch break I am going to install a test gage to get an actual reading of the pressure.

    My foreman was just listening to it and he said that his 55 Chevy with roller rockers sounded just like mine only he said his was even louder becuase he had a solid cam in it.

    I am half tempted to buy another set of studs and install them with some stamped steel rockers and see if it makes a difference.
    But as money is tight I don't want to just start throwing parts at it to see if that is what is is.

    Now I am running the Rhoads Hydra solid cam set and Rhoads lifters are known to be noisy, but these cams are designed with closing ramps that are supposed to eliminate the clicking.
    I called Rhoads and talked with them for a bit and they said that these cams are supposed to run quite, but that you may hear a slight ticking.
    This is way more than slight. Shannon (mudhog) can tell ya it is freakin loud.

    Rhoads suggested that I run the lash .010" tighter, I may give that a try but I just want to see if anyone else running roller rockers has any valve train noise after the engine warms up.
    If this is the cam and lifters and this is how it is that sucker is coming out.
     
  6. big pappa b

    big pappa b 3/4 ton status

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    That could be the problem then. "everyone " I knew that used Rhodes lifters their cars sounded like they had a solid cam...no matter how they were adjusted

    and in my experience the roller rockers were about the same as the stockers
     
  7. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I have some valvetrain noise in my setup (roller rockers) but I'm not sure I'm ready to blame the rockers.

    Did it when I first started the motor, pulled the valve covers, readjusted/checked "lash", put it back together, no difference. Broke a stud (unrelated) pulled heads, went with ARP studs, re-assembled, same noise.

    The noise in MY case is more pronounced on one side and location (passenger rear valve cover area) but I've checked and re-checked the
    "lash", and they are still good.

    Again, in my case, I've got injectors that could be adding noise, and aftermarket roller lifters that MIGHT be a cause, even though it sounds like its coming from up top. I've not been adventurous enough to pull the valve cover(s) and tried adjusting the lash with the engine running. Usually I'm 1/2 turn past "zero lash", the last time I went 3/4 turn and no difference.
     
  8. mudhog

    mudhog THEGAME Staff Member Super Moderator

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    it sounds just like an older diesel :blush:
     
  9. short sub

    short sub Registered Member

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    what rockers are you running(1.5 or 1.6) also whats the specs on the cam? It may be the springs bottoming out. Good luck later Ryan
     
  10. Wes Harden

    Wes Harden Registered Member

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    I have 2 sets of stamped steel roller tip rockers 1 sets 1.6es didn't make noise the 1.5s do go figure I reajusted several times and added lucas still the same.
    you can get clip to block the oil hole so you can adjust running. I cut the center out of of an old valve cover to adjust vavles running works for hydraulic only as you can't reach the push rod or use a feeler guage.
    Wes
     
  11. big pappa b

    big pappa b 3/4 ton status

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    Too much compression, not enough octane :dunno:
     
  12. mudhog

    mudhog THEGAME Staff Member Super Moderator

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    no its not a pinging its a ticking definitely lifters
     
  13. 89GMCSuburban

    89GMCSuburban 1/2 ton status

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    I had a ticking noise likt that on my S10's 4.3. Ended up being the spring retainers on #6 exhaust valve were coming out. Eventually it dropped the valve an crapped the engine.
     
  14. POWERMAD

    POWERMAD 1/2 ton status

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    Figured it out

    It was timing related.
    Inital advance was set at 6, the distributor was hooked to full vaccume which put the timing at 28 deg at an idle.
    After putting it at the ported source it quieted down alot.

    After the new carb and exhaust goes on it is getting the new MSD distibutor.
     
  15. uglyangelracing

    uglyangelracing 1/2 ton status

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    I never thought of that one. Ill have to check that out tomorrow. I developed a slight tick which now is loud enough for me not to drive it until I find the cause. Its not the roller rockers Ive adjusted them 3 times and its only from cyl 2 or 4.
     
  16. Mad-Dog

    Mad-Dog 1/2 ton status

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    I would check the pushrod geometry and make sure the pushrods are long enough...then install lash caps on the valves to spread out the contact area on the roller tip.

    At 1/2 total lift the rocker must be centered on the lash cap.

    The roller tip bearing is replaceable in some rockers and should be checked as well.
     
  17. Wingnutt

    Wingnutt 1/2 ton status

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    Those Rhoads lifters are the culprate. I had a set of thier bleed-down lifters and they drove me nuts. I ended up yanking the cam and lifters for something a bit milder not to mention not as noisy.
     
  18. Mad-Dog

    Mad-Dog 1/2 ton status

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    I'd agree with you on that....rhodes lifters are designed to bleed down at idle speeds to supposedly smooth out a rough cam (WTF...!)
    If they didn't want lumps in their soup they shoulda bought a smaller cam (can ya feel me)
    i personally don't like the design as it uses a larger orifice that depends on increased oil pressure to hold the lifter up at high rpm.
     
  19. POWERMAD

    POWERMAD 1/2 ton status

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    Wrong.

    Q. Is it oil pressure or rpm that restores duration?
    A. RPM . Quite simply, at lower rpm RHOADS LIFTERS have time to leak down, as the rpm increases they have less time to bleed off and by about 3500 rpm full lift and duration are restored.

    Q. Can a high volume or high-pressure oil pump be used with RHOADS LIFTERS?
    A. Yes. As the bleed off is a function of rpm a high volume/pressure pump can be used without any problem at all.

    Personaly I like it. The lifters are a little noisy but not enough to worry about.
    I was a little wary at first as no one I knew of had tried this cam.
    But even with 3.08's and 33's it has plenty of grunt of the line.
    18" of vaccume at an idle isn't to bad for a cam with an advertised duration of 292/306 either. ;)
     
  20. Mad-Dog

    Mad-Dog 1/2 ton status

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    OOPs, my bad :bow:

    I can see a connection since oil pressure is directly related to rpm...usually 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm.

    That's a whole bunch of advertised duration you got there,
    i can see why you had to SMOOTH it out a tad....!

    Are you running a 3,500 stall converter ?
     

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