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?'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by y5mgisi, Jul 22, 2003.

  1. y5mgisi

    y5mgisi 1 ton status

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    ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    I want to weld my rear edn like they did in the tech section here. Sence I wont be changing anything I wont have to worry about shiming or anything right? and also do I have to replace anything (like bolts or baring caps or crap like that? /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif
     
  2. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    You will have to loosen the side bearing adjusting nuts in order to get the carrier out. As long as you put them back exactly as they were previously, you will not have to worry about messing up your gears.
     
  3. mudhog

    mudhog THEGAME Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    i know this is how to install a detroit but it will tell you how to take the carrier out and put it back in /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif http://www.off-road.com/chevy/tech/detroit/
     
  4. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    Don't bother welding it per the tech article. The back lash that this creates will, over the long run, cause cracking and failure of the side and spider gears. I believe tRustyK5 can comment on this. He put alot of miles on a setup done as the tech article, and was not happy with the long term wear. If you're gonna weld it, I think the consenus is that welding the side gears, spiders, and cross shaft all into one piece is the best idea. I have done 10+ of these for club members and even sold a couple on another BB. So if you have any questions, I'm your man. Here's a few pictures and a bit of an explanation..

    Remove the axle shafts first...Ask me how many times I've done this and forgot to remove the axle shafts, and then couldn't figure out why I couldn't get the carrier out.. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    After you get the cover off the housing and you're lookin at the carrier and ring gear, you'll see two small bolts, one on either side of the carrier. These two bolts hold the clips in place, which in turn lock the side bearing adjusting nuts in place. These are the large round pieces with many small holes around thier circumference, just outboard from the carrier bearing races. What I do is take a scribe and mark the two holes that the prongs on the clips sit in on the adjusting nut. I also scribe a third mark between the two holes on the adjusting nut and onto the housing. Remove the carrier bearing cap bolts, don't bother with removing the two small bolts and the clips. Set them aside in the same orientation that they came off. Leaving the clips and bolts in the bearing cap helps with making sure that you get them back on in the same orientation they came off. No it's time to loosen the adjusting nut's. One turns clockwise, the other turns counter clockwise. What I do is loosen each nut exactly 1 rotation. Lining up the scribe mark on the nut's and the scribe mark on housing after one rotation. Check to see if the carrier will come out now. If it won't, loosen each nut 1 more turn. Check again. Repeat till the carrier will come out. Remember how many rotations you loosened the nuts, so you'll know how many rotations to tighten them when you put it back together. If you loosen it 2 turns, tighten it two turns, and make sure the two prongs on the clip go back into the holes on the adjusting nut that you marked ealier. Pull carrier out, make sure that the carrier bearing races don't fall out and take off accross the shop floor and hide under the tool box... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif Set carrier on bench and remove all the ring gear bolts. Tap ring gear off of carrier with brass punch and hammer. Split carrier apart.

    This is what you will see after removing the ring gear and splitting the carrier halves apart...
    [​IMG]

    First thing you need to do is take the top side gear off, and tack the spider gears to the cross shaft where the welds are in this picture..Don't forget to flip it over and tack the other side as well. Make sure that the little cup shaped washers that sit betwee the spiders and the carrier remain there while you tack things. I have yet to pull a 14b carrier apart where all 4 of those washers were in good shape. Everyone has had atleast 1 cracked washer. Luckily I had spares. After you get it all tacked, put some welds appx. 1" long in the same places as the tacks. Just like the picture below. [​IMG]

    Now put the side gear back on top of the spiders, making sure that it meshs correctly with the spiders and is seated all the way down. Tack every place where the side gears meet the spiders. Remove the gear cluster thingy from the carrier half, flip it over, and set the side you just tacked back into the carrier. There are also large flat washers behind the side gears, make sure those stay in place as well. Repeat the same process with the other side gear. When you have everything tacked together, pull the "gear ball" out of the carrier and weld every place the spiders meet the side gears..Like these pictures...(In the background of the first picture, you can see the cup shaped washers that go behind the spiders, and the large flat washers that fit behind the side gears.)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    With 24 seperate welds holding it together, it won't come apart. Pretty much a mini spool for a 14b. I'm 99.9% sure that welded in this manner, It WILL NOT break. The entire carrier would have to explode for that to happen. If you don't like it after you weld it, you can either pull the gear ball out and replace it with a Detriot, or another set of spiders, side gears and cross shaft. No damage to the carrier at all. After you finish, be sure that you clean off all the boogers you can. They like to hang out on the splines in the side gears. A bladed screw driver and a small hammer work well to knock them off. Put everything back together. Don't freak out if the axle shafts dont slide in as loose as they pulled out. Almost everyone I've done I've had to tap thje axle shafts in with a hammer. Key word is tap. If you have to seriously hammer on it, something is wrong. Alot of heat went into welding things together, heat cause's expanding and contracting, thats why it could be a tight fit.

    Damn....This pretty much turned into a write-up on how to weld a 14b. haha! Hope that it helps. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  5. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    <font color="green"> Hey Joe, I still don't understand, can you give some more details? </font> [​IMG]
     
  6. y5mgisi

    y5mgisi 1 ton status

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    WOW! kidjethro, You've realy out done yourself!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif But thats awsome i will save that and do it just like you said. You should realy get one of the makers of this sight to post this as another write up on welding rearends. Thats real cool, step by step and all that! any ways thanks again, I'll book mark that and get on it as soon as i get some time.
     
  7. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    [ QUOTE ]
    <font color="green"> Hey Joe, I still don't understand, can you give some more details? </font> [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hey Evan...Anytime now you can get on your knees and smile like a donut![​IMG]


    [ QUOTE ]
    WOW! kidjethro, You've realy out done yourself!! But thats awsome i will save that and do it just like you said. You should realy get one of the makers of this sight to post this as another write up on welding rearends. Thats real cool, step by step and all that! any ways thanks again, I'll book mark that and get on it as soon as i get some time.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thanks for the kind words. Perhaps a good idea on maybe making this a sticky post or something...Anyone? Moderators? Steve? /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  8. TrcksR4ME

    TrcksR4ME 1/2 ton status

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    do you know the difference between welding it as you showed versus a Detroit? I have heard it doesn't drive as well and tires wear out quicker, but makes me wonder how big a difference and would one notice? TIA
     
  9. BurbLover

    BurbLover 1/2 ton status

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    As a daily driver, this will wear tires put alot faster due to the inside tire spinning on the pavement. However, if this is not your DD, shouldn't be a big deal. Anyway, just my $.02.

    /forums/images/graemlins/burb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  10. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    Actually it's the outside tire that gets dragged around sharp turns. I've actually started to get used to mine, but I'm not all that thrilled about it just the same. I'm going to pull it out in favor of a Detroit soon. If anyone wants the welded up spiders, pay shipping and i'll send them to ya.
     
  11. BurbLover

    BurbLover 1/2 ton status

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    I'll take em if not too much. $$ is real tight right know. How much to send to 80925. Let me know &amp; PM me with you address/info so I know where to send the check. Thanks.

    /forums/images/graemlins/burb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  12. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    Welded like tech article...cracked and chipped side gears in 20,000 miles.

    Jethro version meltified gear blob...unlikely it'll ever break.

    Having a Detroit after 20,000 miles of having a welded diff...much nicer, downright civilized now/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    BTW Joe...no video link? Testimonials? 0% financing? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Rene
     
  13. BurbLover

    BurbLover 1/2 ton status

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    Is there anyone in Colorado who'd be willing to help me weld by 14B the way Kid Jethro talks about?

    I'm in Colorado Springs and have been wanting to do this for a while. I even have a 230/140 HD Arc Welder, if that will work. Thanks!!

    By the way, the axle is off of the vehicle, which should make it a little easier. I've actually been waiting to weld it so that I can install it under my Burb.

    /forums/images/graemlins/burb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  14. y5mgisi

    y5mgisi 1 ton status

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    Sence the axel is under i pickup, would that make the effects more tollaerable(sp?) then say on a K5 ?
     
  15. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: ?\'s about weld locking a 14bolt FF

    I guess it'd be a little less annoying in a pick-up than the K5...

    It's not really bad unless you're in a tight parking lot, for the most part it's pretty invisible excpet for the heavy steering feel. Steering return to center is very pronounced with a welded diff.../forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    It is very predictable though, and no random banging like the Detroit (my only bitch about having a detroit now)

    Locker induced lane change is also non existant. Tire wear is better with the Detroit though.

    Rene
     

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