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Seized engine diagnosis

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by dremu, Oct 12, 2006.

  1. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    It would appear that my most recent failure to make it to BlazerBash was in part caused by my tow rig motor's lack of desire to spin. :eek1: :doah:

    Symptom: The starter (reman, about six months ago) tries very hard to crank, I can hear the solenoid click engaging, but no spin. It also makes a humming noise saying to me that it's TRYING, but no go. There was an amazing overheat on some hills and the wife didn't notice the temp gauge :doah: ... so she barfed coolant something fierce and we pulled off. I had the trucks towed back. :rolleyes:

    So, diagnosis: I've removed the belts from all the accessories: alternator, power steering pump, and water pump. All spin freely, so they're not seized, i.e. they're not what's stopping things.

    The starter still won't crank the motor. Batteries are both fairly new and have ~12.5V on them before this, freshly charged.

    I am inclined to suspect that Karnak The Invincible sees a motor rebuild in my future. I first have to get her out of the street, into my yard (which involves going uphill, grr) and then I'll be able to tear into her more.

    Should any of y'all have suggestions -- yank the starter? try to turn the flywheel by hand? -- I'll take them. Also any doom-sayers who can say for sure, yep, my engine has become one very solid boat anchor will be listened to, as then I just winch the thing up the driveway and stop playing with it.

    -- A
     
  2. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    Socket on crank ( manual in neutral or clutch in , auto is all neutral when off ) breaker on socket , try to turn it by hand .
     
  3. NoReGrEtS

    NoReGrEtS 1/2 ton status

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    also pull all the spark plugs it would make it easer ( if it isn't locked up)
     
  4. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    Blecht. Fun to do in the street :(

    Okay, I'll give it a roll. If it does spin, I presume the issue is with the starter, then? While I hate bench-pressing a 40# football, I'd rather do that then hafta spring for a new bigblock...

    -- A
     
  5. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    Okay ... she refuses to turn AT all, so she's frozen, yeah? Time to pull the motor? :doah:

    -- A
     
  6. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    i'd say yes. It's gonna be a bizzatch to tear down too... :doah:

    Rene
     
  7. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    Eh? This is the sixpack... bigblock, '74, fairly devoid of "stuff". Remove the hood, radiator, maybe the front clip ... okay, yeah, it's sounding like work. :rolleyes: But it's gonna be MORE hassle to get that thing up the driveway and around the tight corner ... even winching the old girl.

    Do you know how much crate 454's are though? I paid like $1500 for a Goodwrench crate 350 for my K5 ... but big blocks are apparently made of freakin' platinum :mad: I may go get me a wrecked Dodge and put in a Cummins or something.

    -- A
     
  8. 73k5blazer

    73k5blazer Unplug the matrix cable from the back of your head Premium Member

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    That sucks.
    Double because you didn't make it BB. But kudos for trying.

    $4800 for the cheapest crate BB from GM. Not horrible considering what you get though, 425hp, almost 500ft/lbs torque at just 3200, over 400ftlbs starting at 1500!
     
  9. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    Well, that's better than the seven grand I'd priced 'em at. For that I can get a used Ram with a turbo Cummins and do the swap.

    Five grand ... christ, still a lot of money, but. :deal:

    -- A
     
  10. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    Not neccessarily . I tore a 402 down with a bad bearing . Just put it in the stand , pop heads off , pull balancer , flip over , unbolt broken crap :D
     
  11. BadBob

    BadBob 1/2 ton status

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    That's the cheapest GM Performance Parts big block, you can get the 74-93 Goodwrench crate engine for $3800.
     
  12. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Yeah, it really depends on how it seized. The fact it overheated bad enough to seize makes me thing severely scored cylinder walls (black death) which could make getting the slugs out a bit of a chore. Mind you, if Aaron goes for a crate none of that matters...

    Rene
     
  13. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    You could also drop it off at my shop and i could rebuild it for alot less than $4,000. Without seeing what's broke or damaged i'd bet around $2500 to rebuild your engine.
     
  14. 73k5blazer

    73k5blazer Unplug the matrix cable from the back of your head Premium Member

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    Ahhh..yeah, your right, I forgot about the "Goodwrench replacment motors". I was just looking at the performance parts ones.
    THey are pretty bare bones though, no balancer, intake, water pump, flywheel/flexplate..etc
     
  15. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    You were on my list of people to check with :) -- gotta love having local folks!

    Question of course is whether it's worthwhile rebuilding this one, or if the block is cracked or something I'd just go with the crate... which of course we won't know 'till it comes out. I am suspicious of the heads, anyway, as one of the rockers had sheared itself last year, and the dang thing is just oooold ::shrug::

    Anyway, I'm still a bit pissed at the thing, so gimme a month or rwo to winch the thing into the yard and get up the energy to WANT to touch it =)) ... and we'll see.

    Thanks all!

    -- A
     
  16. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    Well, the PITA is that I've replaced water pump, alternator, radiator, etc etc etc all within the last few thousand miles... basically all that's left is carb, engine, tranny... and you bet your buns when the engine's out that tranny is coming out too, gonna get a going-over :)

    -- A
     
  17. 1979jimmy350

    1979jimmy350 1/2 ton status

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    you might want to try some pb blaster in the spark plug holes then try and turn it over maby a ring got stuck becasue of rust, was the truck sitting for a long time? If this does not help you might even just want to pull the oil pan while its still in the truck and see if its a lower end bearing that could bb replaced pretty easy as long as the crank is not to bad
     
  18. dremu

    dremu Officious Thread Derailer Premium Member

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    Well, the truck's seen irregular use over the last, heh, two years and change that I've had it. And it seized whilst in motion, so I don't think it rusted shut :)

    Yeah, I may pull the pan and take a look ... but the damn thing has always worried me, so this may just be an excuse to redo it right :deal:

    -- A
     
  19. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    disassembling an engine that has spun rod bearings (most commonly the rods sieze way before the mains do) isnt really that bad, providing the offending rod(s) are in a position where you can get to the bolts. my 355 i build in HS, and the L31 i've got in the garage both had spun #1 and #2 rod bearings, loosen the cap, and they'd turn over. i'd imagine if it were a main bearing, you could achieve the same results by loosening the main bolts on all 5 caps.
     
  20. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    A major overheat can cause the pistons to swell and grab the cylinder walls and sieze the engine. Usually once cooled down the engine will turn over once again but irreversible damage has occured at that point and the engine would need a rebuild regardless. Rarely does a spun rod or main bearing sieze and engine so it can't be turned over.
     

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