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should be posted in the garage but getting no answer

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by NEOMASTINO2U, Sep 25, 2002.

  1. NEOMASTINO2U

    NEOMASTINO2U 1/2 ton status

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    okay i posted this in the garage and got no answer or help, our 1 ton is having problems starting it will start when you pump the gas a couple of times and even then it takes it a few to start, never had a problem with it doing that until recently, what could it be? could it be a bad cell in the battery or a fuel problem? it has the 454 vortec motor in it and about 65000 miles on it i think, but we use it to tow our trailer so just wondering if maybe that is putting wear and tear on something like the starter or battery or fuel injectors? any help would be appreciated.
    thanks
    kelly
     
  2. 4x4k20

    4x4k20 1/2 ton status

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    sounds like the electric fuel pump is fixing to go out it will cause a hard start i would have the pressure checked
     
  3. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    The symptom of a bad battery is that the starter won't turn over. But it sounds like your starter is working fine and spinning the engine over, but the engine just doesn't want to start. You shouldn't have to even touch the gas pedal to start a Vortec 454. It sounds like it could be a few things, such as a leaky injector allowing fuel to puddle in the engine, creating a flooded condition. Or a flaky temp sensor telling the engine that the weather is much colder or warmer than it really is. This will change the amount of extra fuel that the computer sends to the engine for it's cold-start function.

    That engine has either OBD II or OBD III, both of which have pretty extensive diagnostic capabilities. I'd suggest you try to find an engine scanner and see what is going on under the hood.
     
  4. Kyle89K5

    Kyle89K5 1/2 ton status

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    When was the last time you changed the fuel filter?

    Hook your timing light up to the coil wire and watch the injectors (thanks Harry /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif ) That will show you what kind of pattern you are getting.

    HTH
     
  5. Butch

    Butch 1/2 ton status

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    Mine started doing the same thing. It was hard to start, would have to hold the pedal to the floor while cranking it. Turns out the diapharm in the pressure regulator had a pin hole in it that was flooding #5 & 7 everytime you cut the motor off.
     
  6. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Hmmm, wonder if it could be the fuel pump relay? When the relay goes out, you must turn the engine using the starter till the oil pressure comes up. At least that is true of the older EFI engines... I doubt it has anything to do with pumping the gas since there is no "booster pump" like a carb. The only way I can see the throttle having any influence is if, as was already said, you have some problem with too much fuel on initial startup...
     
  7. NEOMASTINO2U

    NEOMASTINO2U 1/2 ton status

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    well i see this got reposted in the garage again, oh well at least now i have a few ideas on what it could be, there is no engine light that comes on i forgot to add that, any way fuel pump is making a high pitch whining noise after you shut the truck off you can hear it almost like its priming itself, and for the vortec it used to start just by turning the key, but now got to pump the gas peddle a couple of times and it just started to do it about 2 weeks ago and its getting harder and harder to start, the reason i thought it was the battery is my husband tried to jump start my sons car and his truck couldn't do it, it was wierd i had to get the blazer out to jump his cadillac and had no problems, but thats why i was wondering if it could just be a bad cell in the battery, i know if it has a bad cell it will be hard to start, ran into that problem with the blazer went through a few batteries, but now thanks to you guys i am wondering if its that damn fuel pump that happens to be in the tank, anyone have any idea on how to change one of those, i know the shop wants over 700.00 to change the fuel pump so got to figure out how to do this one on our own, shouldn't be that hard should it? thanks for the ideas, oh and the filter got changed about 2 months ago.
    kelly
     
  8. Butch

    Butch 1/2 ton status

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    You can have that pump pressure tested first. The pump itself is over 300 bucks so it is worth 45 to have it tested. Mine whines after I cut it off also on my 98. Try turning the switch to on let the pump run the few seconds then bump the switch and let it run again and see if it will crank any better, if it does it might be the pump, but I doubt it. That is a 110psi pump and it only takes 55-58psi to run the motor. The regulator makes up the difference, so that pump would have to be at less than half its copacity to be the problem
     
  9. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

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    Definately try and check the fuel pressure. The funny thing is, even if you have a kinked hose, it can still deliver the proper pressure, but not fuel flow. The odd part is, I am assuming that once you start up, you have no problem. So Im leaning toward some sorta flooded condition somehow. (stuck injector? weak spark?) if its a constant flooded condition, check your plugs to see if they are fouled up.

    oh yeah, OBDIII hasn't been released yet. But I hear it is mightly complex. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif
     
  10. florida4x4

    florida4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Bottom line is you need to scan the computer for codes. Flooding is a good start. Do you hold the pedal to the metal or just pump it? Check the throttle position sensor...
     
  11. NEOMASTINO2U

    NEOMASTINO2U 1/2 ton status

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    once the truck gets started it runs great, just at start up is the problem! but about 4 months ago our gas gauge quit working always reads full, chevy dealer said it could be the gauge, or the whole panel cluster or the fuel sensor in the fuel pump, so with that knowledge what do you guys think? i am now beginning to think something with the fuel pump? or injectors? geuss i am gonna have to take it in just to get it checked first, then if its the fuel pump hopefully someone can help me figure out how to get it out of the gas tank! /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif thats gonna be a pain! hopefully it is just an injector problem, maybe a cleaning? any way thanks for all the help and info at least now i got more to go on to figure it out! again thanks!
    kelly
     
  12. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Getting it out of the gas tank is not the problem. Getting the gas tank *down* so you can get the pump/sending unit out is the problem. Not hard, just a PIA.

    Hmmm. IIRC, the fuel gauge works off variable ground, and that truck probably has a polly tank. I wonder if it’s lost ground? If so, maybe that has caused the pump to have problems. I know broken ground straps can cause LOTS of bozo hard to figure out problems, especially on the newer vehicles. Just a thought, take it with a grain of salt, this is not my best area of knowledge. On something like this I would just start checking things till it starts making sense. Probably more or less in this order (depending on early answers or observations that might send me elsewhere).

    Fuel Relay works?
    Pull line near engine and check for flow and pressure.
    (Yours has a convenient shraeder valve, mine does not)
    Check fuel filter.
    Check wires near tank, verify good clean ground.
    Check plugs for signs of fuel fouling.
    (Wet with gas when cold? Strong smell?)
    Check other ignition parameters.

    I would also run a scanner on mine. I have an older TBI EFI with ALDL so I use WinALDL on my laptop to pull info and codes from the ECM. Various sensors can cause all sorts of problems when they go out.

    That’s all I can think of. If an hour or so of checking and poking didn’t turn up anything, I would post a question along with discoveries I think are relevant on here (and a few other boards). We have some guys on here that I think “ARE *THE* STUFF” on TBI. Pete (pcorsmidt), Harry (HarryH3), Frank (BlazinOR), and Doug(AZBlazer) to name just few who have been a big help to me.
     
  13. ntaj*ep

    ntaj*ep 1/2 ton status

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    If you want to check the pressure, and regulator. I have all the testers to do that. So you can let me know. I would start there and get an idea or base line of whats up. One other question though, Does it only do this first thing? Or will it do it all day?
     
  14. NEOMASTINO2U

    NEOMASTINO2U 1/2 ton status

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    thanks i am probably gonna need help on this one big time, i hate computerized motors /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif and unfortunatly it does it every time it starts whether its warm or cold, now i know why i stick with older vehicles with no computer running them! /forums/images/icons/smirk.gif its just this thing they want an arm and a leg for just to look at and diagnose! so got to try and figure it out! can't afford to have a shop fix it or look at it. thanks everyone for all the info it helps alot now i have a few things to check, or i should say hubby can check! it is his truck after all guess thats what he gets for wanting something newer! /forums/images/icons/grin.gif
    kelly
     
  15. ntaj*ep

    ntaj*ep 1/2 ton status

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    Let me know if you want some help. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif
     
  16. chulisohombre

    chulisohombre 1/2 ton status

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    id say get an engine diagnosis thingy.i dont know whats best because the newest car ive owned was a 86 subaru but i think that is the best thing you can do.i think the cheapest they go is 100 dollars but then you have it and dont have to worry bout it again.it sounds like a fuel pump or regulator problem to me.my wifes cavalier does the same thing when it starts.i just dont want to replace it til it stops working.we have to let the pump run a couple of seconds before it builds uo pressure to start the car when its below 1/2 a tank
     
  17. NEOMASTINO2U

    NEOMASTINO2U 1/2 ton status

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    thank you so much definatly gonna need your help on this one let me know when you are free soon and maybe we can figure out when to look at it and find its problem. thank you so much again.
    kelly
     

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