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Simple abortion poll...i hope

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by ncbloodhound, Aug 26, 2004.

  1. ncbloodhound

    ncbloodhound 1/2 ton status

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    <FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="http://coloradok5.com/forums/dopoll.php"><INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="pollname" VALUE="1093558953ncbloodhound">


    Would you support legislation that would require women who receive abortions to watch a video or view pictures of the procedure prior to having an abortion.
    <input type="radio" name="option" value="1" />Yes
    <input type="radio" name="option" value="2" />No
    <input type="radio" name="option" value="3" />Not sure
    <INPUT TYPE=Submit NAME=Submit VALUE="Submit vote" class="buttons"></form>

    Just some food for thought...
     
  2. ncbloodhound

    ncbloodhound 1/2 ton status

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    Poll is not working... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
     
  3. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    That's the absolute stupidest thing I have ever heard
     
  4. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

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    I agree.... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
     
  5. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    Like having to watch a video of Fumes before any large alcohol purchase

    *GWAH!*

    Heh, sorry
     
  6. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    My personal opinion about abortion is that it is a personnal issue. There's alot too be taken into consitteration. Every case is different. But in the end, I belive it should be the woman's choice. I don't think the goverment should be able too denie it. Now I can see a nice long talk with a counciler first, but I don't have any say in it.
     
  7. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    It should be a woman's choice huh? So I shot my load in her, that baby is 50% mine, and she can kill it without my permission?

    I don't think so.....

    In a rape case, maybe.

    Otherwise, that baby is still 1/2 mine.

    I think abortion is murder and should be completely outlawed unless the mother is going to die without it, but even if you belive in that it should be legal, if you're a man, how can you think that a woman should be able to abort your baby without your say? That is bullshit.
     
  8. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    It should be a woman's choice huh? So I shot my load in her, that baby is 50% mine, and she can kill it without my permission?

    I don't think so.....

    In a rape case, maybe.

    Otherwise, that baby is still 1/2 mine.

    I think abortion is murder and should be completely outlawed unless the mother is going to die without it, but even if you belive in that it should be legal, if you're a man, how can you think that a woman should be able to abort your baby without your say? That is bullshit.

    [/ QUOTE ] I see you didn't read the whole thing. I said every case is different. And yes, it should be her choice. If you're going too be there with her, help raise the child, ...ect. I'm sure she'll take all that into consitteration. So you'd reather see a teenage girl in a ally with a coat hanger because she got knocked up ???? Dude, it's 2004, not the 50's.
     
  9. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    Real eloquent there Tim....

    Hey if the father wants it he can have it, but the man is the actionable person, so that unless the woman changes her mind, there is no argument other than that under which your argument stands.

    Sure, abortion is killing life, but it's blind unknowing life, go for it
     
  10. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Abortion is an interesting subject.

    I don't like the subject.

    I neither agree or disagree on the subject. I frown upon people that think it's a form of birth control. I frown upon people that think they have the right to dictate what happens to the fetus with the law.

    If a woman decides to keep a fetus and the man does not want the fetus then he should not be held liable financially or in any other way. I also do not believe a man should be able to dictate that she must keep the fetus.

    The ultimate decision should be up to the woman but not without consequence. All a man should have to do is file the paperwork to remove responsibility of the child and pay minimal money for doing so.

    Sure, it's the man's fault for donating the sperm but it's just as much of the fault of the woman for accepting it.

    I also have a belief that the fetus is not a human being until it can survive without machinery. Up until then it is a parasite on the mother, after that it is a human being and abortion would be murder.


    Those are my thoughts on the subject. Take them as thoughts.
     
  11. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    unless the mother is going to die without it

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Tim, you might be surprised to learn, an abortion has never saved a woman's life.
    I've done little research on this argument, but enough to be confident it's hearsay that's been transformed into fact through hype and inaccuracy. I understand there has never been a case where an abortion has been 100% medically necessary, and in cases where it's been claimed, the abortion had no positive effect on the health of the mother.
    Regarding Partial-birth abortions:
    "The American Medical Association has said the procedure is "not good medicine" and is "not medically indicated" in any situation."

    To directly quote the AMA Policy # H-5.982 (link may not work):
    "Except in extraordinary circumstances, maternal health factors which demand termination of the pregnancy can be accommodated without sacrifice of the fetus [meaning, without aborting -Ratch], and the near certainty of the independent viability of the fetus argues for ending the pregnancy by appropriate delivery."
    Essentially, if there is a medical reason that the pregnancy will somehow interfere with the mother's health, a doctor should try to deliver the baby instead of aborting it. In cases where the pregnancy endangers the life of the mother, abortion is STILL not recommended, and only occurs as the result of another medical procedure that renders the fetus unable to survive. A situation such as treatment for something else, that in the process kills the unborn child.

    This page says it better than I can: [ QUOTE ]
    Abortion is never necessary to save a mother's life.

    It is important to distinguish between direct abortion, which is the intentional and willed destruction of a preborn child, and a legitimate treatment a pregnant mother may choose to save her life. Operations that are performed to save the life of the mother—such as the removal of a cancerous uterus or an ectopic pregnancy that poses the threat of imminent death—are considered indirect abortions.

    They are justified under a concept called the "principle of double effect." Under this principle, the death of the child is an unintended effect of an operation independently justified by the necessity of saving the mother's life.

    Essentially, both mother and child should be treated as patients. A doctor should try to protect both. However, in the course of treating a woman, if her child dies, that is not considered abortion.


    [/ QUOTE ]




    Abortion is one issue I feel pretty strongly about (you couldn't tell, could you?). You may not buy it, but I was pro-choice at one point in my life. I hadn't actually looked into the biology of life and the realities of abortion. That can change a person's mind.
     
  12. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    In that case I'll rephrase that I do not believe abortion is acceptable at any time. If it is never medically necessary, there, there is never any reason for an abortion in my opinion.

    But, no matter what end of the legal spectrum you're on, I believe it takes two to make a baby, and if you're going to kill it, immoral as it is, it should be the choice of both, not just one.
     
  13. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    I'm not knocking your thoughts on this, but I do want to challenge this point:

    [ QUOTE ]
    I also have a belief that the fetus is not a human being until it can survive without machinery.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    With this logic, we could also free society of the burden of "handicap accessibility".
    Wheelchair-dependant vets, respirator-bound elderly and comatose, paraplegics with prosthetic limbs, all the way down to people with eyeglasses, if you wanna be wholly fair.

    It's essentially the same concept. If a car crash victim becomes comatose with an unpredictable chance of recovery, but pretty much a garauntee of survival on a respirator, does that mean they are a parasite on someone, and only after recovery, killing them would be murder?
     
  14. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

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    You guys should just stick to answering the fawkin question for once.... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  15. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]

    With this logic, we could also free society of the burden of "handicap accessibility".
    Wheelchair-dependant vets, respirator-bound elderly and comatose, paraplegics with prosthetic limbs, all the way down to people with eyeglasses, if you wanna be wholly fair.

    It's essentially the same concept. If a car crash victim becomes comatose with an unpredictable chance of recovery, but pretty much a garauntee of survival on a respirator, does that mean they are a parasite on someone, and only after recovery, killing them would be murder?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Those persons are sentient and evolved beyond being small weak animals, so that plays a part

    I think he meant that you couldn't leave a baby in a room for 24 hours with some food and water and maybe a magazine and expect it to live. Also, these persons can represent thier preference to live and justify that point.

    As for this partial birth abortion thing, I think if you wanna have an abortion, you can get it done within the first three months, when the lines of emotion and morality are miles down the road and maybe not even drawn yet
     
  16. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    What are you trying to say, I talk too much? /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  17. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    I'm pro-choice... the womans choice comes the second she spreads her nasty legs and takes some creeps schlong.

    the left loves to make abortion sound like its used to save rape victims and crack babies... the truth is that its the contraceptive of choice for morons.

    j
     
  18. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Those persons are sentient and evolved beyond being small weak animals, so that plays a part

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This now becomes matter of opinion, not fact. Opinion can feel, smell, taste like fact, though, so be wary of it.

    To help identify it as opinion, replace "evolved" with "Grown"; there is no addition or subtraction in DNA from the birth to death of a human (the blueprint is there at birth, no changes are made during life), as "evolved" would imply, although the term fits by definition.


    [ QUOTE ]
    I think he meant that you couldn't leave a baby in a room for 24 hours with some food and water and maybe a magazine and expect it to live.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yeah, I figured that could be what he meant. In which case, apply the argument to all those that fit in that category, not selectively. Then should human's under two years of age be categorized as parasites to be terminated at will? Or small weak animals?
    I've experienced the birth and growth of two infants. I can testify, regardless of thier dependence or ability to survive, they are human and they do have personalities.
    If you want to argue purely biologically, then an embryo is un-arguably, medically, human at 14 days. After that, it becomes purely opinion of whether that human is simply animal or person, I suppose derived from your particular belief in humankinds origin.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Also, these persons can represent thier preference to live and justify that point.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Well, no, I would have to say they can not. Not a comatose "vegetable" at least (my primary comparison). And one cannot assume they know that persons preference.
    "One" by metallica makes a good point; can you assume he wants to live or die? No one can know an individual's desire to live or die when they cannot communicate with the individual.


    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    edit: corrected a pretty funny typo...
     
  19. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    Oh I'm sorry, yes that was ALL opinion, because as far as I know I can't have a baby....

    Anyway

    [ QUOTE ]
    To help identify it as opinion, replace "evolved" with "Grown"; there is no addition or subtraction in DNA from the birth to death of a human (the blueprint is there at birth, no changes are made during life), as "evolved" would imply, although the term fits by definition.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I was not using it in it's strict meaning. I meant to convey that a baby, just born, is no more sentiant or "human" than a mouse. Not that "we" should be crushing thier skulls when "we" have 9 months to terminate them

    [ QUOTE ]
    Then should human's under two years of age be categorized as parasites to be terminated at will? Or small weak animals?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Again, not really arguing, trying to convey opinion. Technically, a baby thats not inside it's mother is pretty much alive, but, it is not as ingrained as a person on this planet as much as some crippled guy who reads National Geographic and can talk relatively well.

    As for the 2 year old, it has leaned various emotions and skills and has made an identity for itself, no matter how base.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Not a comatose "vegetable" at least (my primary comparison).

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hey, if the memory people have of permanently comatose people makes them want to keep bodies alive, feel free, but otherwise they aren't people, only people by proxy

    [ QUOTE ]
    And one cannot assume they know that persons preference.
    "One" by metallica makes a good point; can you assume he wants to live or die?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ahhh, you know I love a good Metallica quote

    If you read strictly into the song including the video, he blinks a message to kill him. Brain activity can be measured these days also. If the Alpha Catch (try and find THAT reference) is humming, go ahead keep him alive, but if it's flat line, ashes to ashes


    Babies: Get em dead, but get em dead within a proper timeframe, or sell them to someone who wants one.

    AND QUIT HAVING SO MANY YOUR [censored] SICK BREEDERS! THIS ISNT THE 1850's, HALF YOUR FAMILY WILL NOT DIE BY THE AGE OF TWELVE.

    Anyway, have a kid or two, raise it right, and make sure you're ready to do so.

    Ok, to bed, to bed
     
  20. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    AND QUIT HAVING SO MANY YOUR [censored] SICK BREEDERS! THIS ISNT THE 1850's, HALF YOUR FAMILY WILL NOT DIE BY THE AGE OF TWELVE.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Whaaaa? /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif I think that one's over my head...
     

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