Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

SM465/NP205 vs. TH400/NP205 delima

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by SF87K5, Jan 2, 2003.

  1. SF87K5

    SF87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Posts:
    1,105
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Stedman, North Carolina
    Ok can someone help me here. I can get a SM465/205 combo or a TH400/NP205 combo. I am woundering what your guys opinon on what will work the best for a daily driver/rock crawler trnny/tcase combo. When I go 4 wheeling it will be from a dirt train camping with my family to hopefully tellico or moab in the next 2 years. Also I am in North Carolina but will be moving to Colorado Spring in the next 16-18 monthes if everything goes right. With that in mind also which one should I go with.
    I will be putting a doubler from ORD on it also when I get that kind of money.
     
  2. TopOff

    TopOff 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Posts:
    1,760
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Folsom, ca
    As a rock crawler only in my '73. I sure did like my th350 better than my ORD doubled sm465.... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    I haven't REALLY been on any trails yet, but if my local OHV is any indication
    I couldn't get up a simple stair step in granny double low Front and rear locked, where just two months before I went up it in 2WD OPEN with my auto!

    I GUESS I need more seat time with my manual tranny. I need better experience with what gear /speed I need with my manual. With the auto it was point and shoot!

    If I got to do it again, I would run the TH400 with doubler.
     
  3. SF87K5

    SF87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Posts:
    1,105
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Stedman, North Carolina
    Thanks for the info. Am still thinking about what I want.
    Looking for more input guy's
     
  4. bablazer73

    bablazer73 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2000
    Posts:
    3,363
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    upstate ny
    I have wheeled both ways, both have there advantages, but I prefer running an auto! my daily truck is a stick, but the off roader is th400/205. Sometimes it seems like theres to much going on around you to concentrate on and running an auto is 1 less!
     
  5. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    1,857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA.
    I too have been both ways. Started things out with a th350/np203 combo. Like said earlier, it was faily clueless. Point and shoot where you want to go. I remember things being kinda jumpy tho as you'd just break over the top of something, because of the higher rpms with the converter it'd cause me to leap forward after getting over the top. This gave me a loss of control feeling.

    I currently run a sm465/np205 combo and I can't even begin to tell you how much more control I have on the trail. I have no problem conquering or getting up on anything. Put her in granny low and forget about it. Decending the control gained with compression braking is invaluable.

    I went through the entire trail called "Sidewinder" at Coral Canyon without touching my brake once because of the compression braking. I love it. Best part is I don't have to worry about running auxillary coolers or tranny temps. Just keep her full with gear oil and she'll run forever.

    Oh yeah, that problem with the auto and the jumping over obstacles because of the rpms, well that is history. With the manual I just IDLE over things and only need to give it gas if I want to move faster. Otherwise I'm just idling in granny over everything. It rocks!!!!.

    Hope this gives you a good perspective from the manual side of things.


    On the street its a lot different driving with the manual. I have to pay more attention to what I'm doing cause the detroit in my 14 likes to surprise me. But once I got used to that, its no longer a problem.
     
  6. SF87K5

    SF87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Posts:
    1,105
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Stedman, North Carolina
    Waxer... Thanks that really helps. What did your detroit do to surprise you and I have a torquer of and engine I am running at least 400 hp and 500lbs of torgue at 3600 rpms. Would it be best to go with the SM465/NP205 combo, and with the low 1st would you recommend a doubler at all?
     
  7. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    1,857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA.
    honestly when I ran with that granny low (6.55:1) I said to myself "Doubler what??". I could have just been so happy with the control and power gained from the torquey first gear than I was used to with the auto.

    Currently I don't see myself needing/wanting a doubler setup as of yet. I have plenty of gear now to work with and I'm quite happy with it.

    As far as what the detroit does, when I start off in 2nd gear (have to on the streets) and shift to 3rd, as soon as I left off the clutch to start accelerating in 3rd, the truck jerks left or right cause of the locker disengaging. It doesn't like that release of pressure, then pressure back on it hard again.

    When I had the auto, the shifts were quicker and the detroit never noticed it. But it really does with the manual. It is something that you just have to be paying attention when you shift. Be prepared to turn back into the lane a little bit. Cause it causes me to sway a bit.
     
  8. SF87K5

    SF87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Posts:
    1,105
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Stedman, North Carolina
    Waxer... Thanks for the info, Just not sure if I want a stick or not I got a TH350/NP203 combo in my '79 and I dont miss shifting at all. But I am looking toward the future on what will benifit me on wear and tear and what will be cheaper to fix also.
     
  9. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    1,857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA.
    yah I hear ya.

    Bottom line I guess is...

    Manual = clutch changes every few years depending on frequency of use. Generally keep the tranny full with good gear oil and you won't have any problems with it. They are pretty much bulletproof.

    Auto = Keep them cool and you will be ok. They too have internal clutches that wear over use and require rebuilds to replace them clutchpacks. They are a little more vulnerable to hardcore use cause you gotta protect that tranny pan and lines to the coolers.
     
  10. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Posts:
    3,369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I once ran the 400/205 combo. It was very easy to drive off road. But the one level 5 trail I took it on, the tranny nearly didnt let me get home! /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif At that point, I was running a 4 core radiator with an external B&M trans cooler. It was slippin slightly in 1st, and nearly lost reverse all together. It was right then and there, I decided the auto HAD to go.

    So now I run the 465/205 combo behind my 454 & 1 ton gear. Its bullet proof, doesnt contribute to excessive engine temps when offroad and crawls over most anything without any additional throttle... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif I too need more seat time before I get 100% used to the stick, but so far I am LOVING the reliablility and gearing advatages the 465 has over the 400.

    If I had to do it over, and WASN'T going to a doubler I would stay with the 465.

    -Dan
     
  11. 79Beast

    79Beast 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Posts:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Georgia
    I like my 465/205 combo. If you know you are gonna run a doubler, it would be cheaper to use the auto. With the granny tranny, you have to upgrade to the same NP205 input shaft as the 400 version. If you start with the 400, you already have the right tcase and just have to get the 203 adapter and doubler. That said, I still like my granny tranny.
     
  12. SF87K5

    SF87K5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Posts:
    1,105
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Stedman, North Carolina
    Thanks for all your info guy. I am still looking for more info about this delima I am having.
    How is the SM465 going over hills on the highway and how is it on gas and what gears are you running?
    Thanks for your info.
     
  13. TopOff

    TopOff 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Posts:
    1,760
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Folsom, ca
    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    How is the SM465 going over hills on the highway and how is it on gas and what gears are you running?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Because of my 383, Granny low, doubler, and my gears (3.73) I am looking to run either 37" or 36" tires for street reasons.

    This is my semi daily driver, and I love it (except for DW after hitting a bump).

    With my current cam (usuall mods on a stock 350 with a 400 crank= 383 no special heads or valve sizes), as long as I keep it below 2500 I get ~15 mpg. Another plus for the manual trans - no slipping torque converter. I was getting 14MPG with the auto. When I first had this all setup I was getting 16mpg with my Edelbrock carb and TH350!

    My current cam is a really low torque (low lift) RV type cam and was GREAT with the auto. But now with the stick, I really need some better HP in the UPPER (over 3k) range. So I will be putting in a Crane 260 cam. I still want a good idle so my TBI (custom chip) can idle around in granny low.

    Not sure what year and engine you have so something to keep in mind, that no one told me about was when you pull out the auto, you need to reset your ignition timing and curves (mechanical and vacuum). No reall biggie if you already have a computer controlled TBI and ignition. But I have a regular HEI with crane adjustable vacuum and mechanical advance. I went from 12-14 initial to a 8-10 initial timing, and my idle-1500 is really crappy! I can dial it out more, but so far I am fairly happy with it.

    On the way to Rubicon in the Sierra's it kinda' sucks fishing around for a gear. I am sure it is a matter of me getting used to it though.... Staying with 2nd (L, 1, 2, 3) is a pretty safe bet, but you still will get people hanging out on your bumper...

    Good luck.
     
  14. 79Beast

    79Beast 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2001
    Posts:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Georgia
    I'm running 5.13's with 44" TSLs. On the highway I'm in 4th in a hurry and only downshift if I have to slowdow A LOT and then go up a hill. My 350 turns around 3000 RPM 75 MPH. The manual will net you better gas mileage than the auto because it will let your engine turn 200-300 RPM slower than the auto everything else being the same....unless you have a lockup converter. I also like the manual because I don't have to worry about keeping it cool when wheeling. Mine is is on it's third engine that I know of and still works.
     

Share This Page