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SM465 swap

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by BowtieRed, Jul 15, 2003.

  1. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    I called up a shopt today and they told me they had a 465 and a 205 and all linkage laying around and they'd swap out my th350 and 203 AND give me the 465/205 for $1200. (or 700 for just the 465/205) that seems like an aweful good price to me. i don't have the skills to do the swap, i'll be honest with myself, i can't weld, and i'll need to weld in the clutch ?*t-bar*? for the pedal. does $500 sound like a good price for a manual swap to ya'll? if i found another cheaper 465/205 it could be less than 1k for the swap (less driveshafts) I think that sounds good, what about ya'll?
     
  2. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    That sounds excessive to me. What welding are you referring to? It's a direct bolt in. You just need ALL of the parts.

    If I were you I would wait for someone selling a sm465/205 combo for around 300-500, buy that and acquire the rest of the parts at the boneyard. Do the swap yourself, its just a matter of unbolting one setup and bolting up another.

    If you need some help on the details, I'd be more than happy to help you out.
     
  3. RustBuket

    RustBuket 1/2 ton status

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    Do the swap yourself man! I would reccomend gettin a friend over to help cause those buggers are heavy I've heard.
     
  4. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    ya'll are overestimating my skill. sure i'm decently smart and i can figure stuff out, but is it really as simple as ya'll make it sound? seriously, who here has done it? i know kidjethro has- what all did it take? how long? putting the clutch pedal in is what scares me, i don't know why, but that just terrifies me.
     
  5. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    I did it myself. Its VERY simple.

    The pedal assembly bolts right out and you swap in the manual pedal assembly. No welding required. Just need to find it at the boneyard. Which for me was easy cause someone had already pulled it and it was sitting on the floorboard on some GM truck. woohooo I said!!!!
     
  6. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Henry, the pedals attach to a 'bucket' that bolts under the steering column. It really is that simple, absolutely nothing to be scared of and no special tools required.

    The 'Z' bar even bolts in. Like Waxer said you just need all the parts, then they all bolt in just like they were meant to be there/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    FWIW I recently sold a 465/205 combo with all the parts needed to swap to manual like the pedals, 'Z' bar etc etc for $200. Wait for a deal and scoop it! I'd never pay $700 for a 465/205 combo unless it was completely rebuilt.

    $500 to install is about right, it does take a bit of time even with the right tools. But it really shouldn't take more than a day for a competent shop. Should they charge $500 for a day long job? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    rene
     
  7. fortcollinsram

    fortcollinsram 1/2 ton status

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    Honestly, if you are swapping in a manual, go with a hydraulic clutch....That is what I did and I LOVE it...I also think 1200 is pretty steep...I would find a 465/205 combo for cheaper and and go hydraulic...The hardest part of the entire swap is the pedal assembly...If you want I will sell you the 465/205 combo out that is in my truck now (I am putting in a newer rebuilt 465/205 combo)...It is an easy swap....

    You need:

    -465/205 combo
    -Flywheel
    -clutch and pressure plate
    -Bellhousing (if you go hydro, you will need the hydro bell housing or the adapter form AA)
    -Clutch pedal assembly
    -And drive shafts
    -Also a clutch master and slave cylinder if you do hydro

    or the z-bar and linkage for mech. clutch...

    If you are interested in my 465/205 combo let me know (PM me or something...I an ship via Forward air for about $120 for the combo...
     
  8. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    (or 700 for just the 465/205)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Find a setup somewhere else cheaper, and if $700 sounded good to you (meaning you were willing to spend it) take your "left over" money and go buy some more good tools or something. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    I wouldn't pay over maybe $300 for a setup that I didn't know the history on. New rebuild I'd pay more, but I picked my 465/205 up for $200, had to replace the adapter, bought the pedals and stuff (but I went hydraulic, after selling the mechanical pedal to fund the hyde.) and have been running it (well used when I bought it) for about 4 years.

    Sure the 465 could use a freshening up, but it's probably got another 50K in it or so. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  9. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    One other thing, if you stay with manual linkage get a diaphragm clutch. I finally got a diaphragm clutch with manual linkage and the pedal is so much easier to push. I no longer feel like a hydro clutch conversion is the next mandatory swap I do.

    Do not let those parts counter clowns talk you into a Borg & Beck clutch.../forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif I really don't know why they even still sell those. Pedal effort is beyond unreal and they are pretty grabby and seem prone to chatter.

    Rene
     
  10. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    ok . . . maybe i'll take a weekend and do it with a friend. ya'll are very helpful. but i'm warning you, during that weekend don't be surprised if i have 400 posts /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif i'll be asking MANY questions, and probably screwing up a few times. anyway thanks a lot, and fortcollinsram, you have mail /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  11. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    ok . . . maybe i'll take a weekend and do it with a friend. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]



    Gotta love context! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  12. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    oh. . .how did i not see that coming. . . /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  13. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    Alright- getting the clutch and pressure plate and pedal linakge and assembly seems to be my biggest problem. the junkyards around here are insanely expensive (like $500-800 for a 14FF)and it seems like it would take me to pull them out at the u-pull it yard. i'll have to go mechanical clutch with whichever clutch is available. When i said that sounded like a good price i didn't mean i had that money now. i have $0 now. I SHOULD be starting a good job this week and be able to get up $500 in a couple weeks. Would that be enough for everything if i can get a 465/205 combo for say $300? the bellhousing too? this seemed complicated, then easy, now it seems complicated again.

    oh and does anyone want a 203 with part time mod? make me an offer and i can reserve it for you as soon as i start the swap. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  14. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    the cool part of that swap is you can break it into sections
    the in cab pedal job can be done in a few hours once the parts are assembled and you will still be able to drive it around with the auto in it and the clutch pedal flopping around
    I would start there.
     
  15. madmike

    madmike 1/2 ton status

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    I've done this swap twice now, and it really is all bolt-in. I just performed the manual clutch to hydraulic clutch conversion, but I haven't bled the system yet to see how its gonna work. My parts came from an '85 C20, and they bolted right in to my '74 cab, after I made a couple of holes in the firewall.

    You can do it! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  16. big pappa b

    big pappa b 3/4 ton status

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    Here ya go. Check out my signature. I have EVERYTHING you need Pedals, clutch, pressure plate, SM465, NP205 which has the PTO output for a PTO winch that I will include along with all the linkage to the winch for $450
     
  17. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    I'm trying to acquire all the parts right now. Once i get the parts I'll be doing a lot that weekend. During that weekend here's the agenda.
    Take truck to friend's house (where it fits in garage door)
    Pull TH350/NP203
    Put in SM465/NP203
    Put in clutch pedal linkage
    Put in Dana 60. (I have found a cheap supplier)
    Put on 44" Boggers. (This is after it exits the garage. . . due to height constraints.)
    The 60 may have to wait a little though actually, seeing as i'll need two new wheels.

    So HOPEFULLY by Mid-August I'll be, one-ton, manual, and on 44s. Then new front and rear gears.(5.13)
     
  18. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I've done this swap twice now, and it really is all bolt-in. I just performed the manual clutch to hydraulic clutch conversion,

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What kind of clutch you using? (3 finger or diaphram)

    Just curious what difference you feel using the same clutch parts, with the only difference being the hydraulic vs mech.
     
  19. Paxx

    Paxx 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Put in Dana 60. (I have found a cheap supplier)


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hook a brother up /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    How cheap is cheap anyways?
     
  20. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    to you- $450-500 plus shipping. it depends on how much he wants for the axle.
     

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