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So whats the story with these missing explosives in Iraq?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by TrcksR4ME, Oct 27, 2004.

  1. TrcksR4ME

    TrcksR4ME 1/2 ton status

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    /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif
     
  2. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    The story is they most likely were long gone before the troops ever got there and Kerry is blowing smoke up everyone's ass as a last ditch attempt to smear mud on Bush before the election.
     
  3. unclematty

    unclematty 1/2 ton status

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    Go see my Poor john kerry post , I went into it brie /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.giffly
     
  4. unclematty

    unclematty 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Go see my Poor john kerry post , I went into it brie /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.giffly

    [/ QUOTE ]
    WTF I can't spell tonight either!!! /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif
     
  5. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    They went missing like before the war started or something, and there was an NBC reported embedded with the unit that arrived at the site to find it empty. This is old news, there's NOTHING about it to make it headline worthy today.


    There's no other reason for this to come out a week before the election than simply to make Bush look bad. The NY Times ran this story in true Dan Rather style...
     
  6. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's Bush's fault..........................
     
  7. Seventy4Blazer

    Seventy4Blazer 3/4 ton status

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    i took them.... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
    im gonna use the rocket motors to power my blazer /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
    grant
     
  8. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    There's some buzz about a certain Eastern European country that came in and moved them out before we came in.
     
  9. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    I listened to Sean Hannity inteview this young buck that was in the unit that entered the compound. He said there were some weapons left, mostly minor munitions like RPG's and hand grenades. But, he said all the boxes with these weapons had French and German writing on them. "With friends like them, who needs enemas....."
     
  10. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    Here is a little more info for ya:

    "Is the U.N. Meddling in the U.S. Presidential Election?
    by Nile Gardiner, Ph.D.
    WebMemo #596

    October 27, 2004

    The ‘revelation’ that 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives have allegedly gone missing from the Al Qaqaa former Iraqi military complex near Baghdad has caused a political storm in Washington. Senator John Kerry has accused President George W. Bush of “incredible incompetence” and his aides have called for the Bush Administration to “answer for what may be the most grave and catastrophic mistake in a tragic series of blunders in Iraq.”

    The controversy arose after The New York Times published an exposé based on leaked information—most likely originating from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), headed by Director General Mohammed ElBaradei. Information had also been leaked to the CBS documentary program 60 Minutes. The Times article reported that the IAEA had received a letter from the Iraqi Ministry of Science and Technology on October 10 reporting the loss of 341.7 metric tons of HMX, RDX, and PETN. Are U.N. officials attempting to influence the U.S. presidential election?

    The Role of the IAEA
    TheTimes piece was published just one week ahead of the U.S. presidential election on November 2nd, undoubtedly timed to directly influence the electoral debate. Whatever the merits of the accusations in the Times article (which have been strongly contested by the Bush Administration and are largely unproven), critical questions need to be asked with regard to the behavior of the IAEA and its overseeing body, the United Nations.

    Significantly, the IAEA chose to report the missing explosives to the Security Council on October 25, two weeks after it had received the letter from the Iraqi Science Ministry. Its failure to report the findings from Iraq immediately to the Security Council and the subsequent leak of critical information to two media outlets strongly critical of the Bush Administration strongly suggest a political agenda on the part of the U.N. body.

    There is certainly no shortage of tensions between the IAEA and the Bush Administration. Since U.N. inspectors led by Hans Blix were withdrawn from Iraq ahead of the U.S.-British liberation of the country in 2002, relations between the IAEA and the U.S. government have been stormy. The United States has consistently opposed the return of U.N. inspectors to Iraq, despite repeated requests, and has been critical of the IAEA’s performance with regard to the growing threat posed by Iran. The Bush Administration has reportedly opposed ElBaradei’s attempts to seek reelection as Director General of the IAEA for a third term in 2005.

    Three key questions remain unanswered:

    Why did the IAEA decide to inform the Security Council of the Iraqi letter a full two weeks after receiving it and just a week before the U.S. presidential election?
    How and why was sensitive information leaked to the New York Times and CBS?
    What role was played by U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and the U.N. Secretariat in the decisions regarding the timing of the report to the Security Council and any leaking of information to the U.S. media?
    U.N. Criticism of the Bush Administration
    The controversy over the IAEA’s role in the Al Qaqaa missing stockpile scandal must be viewed within the context of the increasingly tense relationship between the Bush Administration and the United Nations over the war in Iraq and the removal of Saddam Hussein’s regime.

    The last few weeks have seen a series of outspoken attacks by U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan on Washington’s decision to go to war in Iraq.Annan described the war to remove Saddam as an “illegal” violation of the U.N. Charter in a September 16 interview with the BBC, adding, “I hope we do not see another Iraq-type operation for a long time.”

    In an interview with another British broadcaster, Annan again criticized the decision of the U.S. government to go to war against Iraq, firmly rejecting the notion that the world is a safer place with Saddam Hussein out of power:

    I cannot say the world is safer when you consider the violence around us, when you look around you and see the terrorist attacks around the world and you see what is going on in Iraq.

    Kofi Annan’s ill-timed comments are a poorly conceived attempt to undercut the United States government and to influence the electoral debate in the country. They are a reflection of his deep-seated resentment of President Bush’s decision to go to war against Iraq without his blessing. Such remarks are deeply unhelpful at a time when the United States and Great Britain, with the support of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1546, are working tirelessly to generate greater international involvement in the reconstruction and stabilization of post-war Iraq.

    Moreover, Annan’s comments also undermine the efforts of the interim Iraqi Government in the lead-up to crucial elections in January. The Secretary-General’s description of the liberation of Iraq as a violation of the U.N. Charter merely gives comfort to the insurgents who are determined to prevent the creation of a successful democracy in Iraq.

    The Declining Credibility of the U.N.
    Kofi Annan’s attacks on the United States over its decision to go to war with Iraq is indicative of the insecurity running through the corridors of power at the U.N. headquarters in New York. The prestige and reputation of the world body is running at an all-time low. The world organization failed spectacularly to deal with Saddam Hussein’s dictatorship and his flouting of the U.N.’s own resolutions, is failing to provide leadership in disarming Iran, and is weak-kneed in the face of genocide in the Sudan.

    At the same time, the U.N. faces serious allegations of mismanagement and corruption relating to its administration of the Iraq Oil-for-Food Program. The ill-fated program is now the subject of at least four congressional investigations, three U.S. federal investigations, as well as a U.N.-appointed commission of inquiry, the Volcker Commission. Worryingly for Annan, the U.S. Department of Justice is investigating the role of Kojo Annan, Kofi’s son, in connection to his role as a paid consultant to Cotecna Inspection SA, a Swiss-based company that received a contract for inspecting goods shipped to Iraq under the Oil-for-Food program.

    Conclusion

    The 2004 Presidential election may be not only a defining moment in American history, but also a defining moment for the future of the United Nations. President Bush’s stark warning to the U.N. General Assembly that the world body faces a descent into irrelevance in the 21st Century and his decision to go to war against Iraq without the blessing of the Security Council have generated great resentment among the unelected bureaucrats of Turtle Bay.

    President Bush is committed to fundamental reform of the U.N. system and has pledged to the American people that the organization will wield no veto over U.S. foreign policy. A second Bush presidency is also likely to strongly support congressional investigations into the Oil-for-Food scandal, undoubtedly a major threat to the standing and reputation of the United Nations—indeed, the scandal has the potential to bring down Kofi Annan and other senior U.N. officials.

    It is hardly surprising then that the U.N. Secretary-General has been highly critical of the U.S. President’s foreign policy in the weeks ahead of the presidential election and has sought to undermine the legitimacy of the U.S.-led war against Iraq. This undignified meddling in the U.S. political debate reflects poorly on an international institution that once took pride in its neutrality on the world stage.

    The current controversy over the IAEA report and the missing explosives must be viewed against the backdrop of mounting U.N. hostility toward the Bush Administration. The strong possibility that Mr. ElBaradei and the IAEA deliberately sought to influence the electoral debate in the United States should be thoroughly investigated. In the face of growing scandal and declining credibility, accountability and transparency must be the watchwords that govern the U.N.

    Nile Gardiner, Ph.D., is Fellow in Anglo-American Security Policy at the Heritage Foundation."

    My personal opinon, we should boot the U.N. out of New York as they have already declined into not only irrelevance, but an outright enemy of the U.S.
     
  11. bigyellowjimmy

    bigyellowjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Good article!

    I agree that this election is not only a defining time in the history of the USA but for the future of the UN as well. The UN has lost some power and will do ANYTHING to regain it.
     
  12. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    IMO we should revoke the rental/lease agreement with the UN and kick them out. Let them go to France where someone actually cares. Send someone like Ted Nugent to be the ambassador to it and just make them look like asses all the time. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    j
     
  13. bigyellowjimmy

    bigyellowjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    IMO we should revoke the rental/lease agreement with the UN and kick them out. Let them go to France where someone actually cares. Send someone like Ted Nugent to be the ambassador to it and just make them look like asses all the time.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You and I think so much alike at times its scary /forums/images/graemlins/woot.gif

    /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  14. TrcksR4ME

    TrcksR4ME 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    IMO we should revoke the rental/lease agreement with the UN and kick them out. Let them go to France where someone actually cares. Send someone like Ted Nugent to be the ambassador to it and just make them look like asses all the time. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    j

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Have them send an envoy to his ranch for a meeting...he can treat them like an episode of surviving Nugent /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  15. bigyellowjimmy

    bigyellowjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Have them send an envoy to his ranch for a meeting...he can treat them like an episode of surviving Nugent

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Now thats a GREAT plan! /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  16. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]

    There's some buzz about a certain Eastern European country that came in and moved them out before we came in.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Russians Moved Iraq's Missing Explosives to Syria
    By Bill Gertz
    Washington Times | October 28, 2004

    Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.

    John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.

    "The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole series of military units," Mr. Shaw said. "Their main job was to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis. The others were transportation units."

    Mr. Shaw, who was in charge of cataloging the tons of conventional arms provided to Iraq by foreign suppliers, said he recently obtained reliable information on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence services that have detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration.
    Most of Saddam's most powerful arms were systematically separated from other arms like mortars, bombs and rockets, and sent to Syria and Lebanon, and possibly to Iran, he said.

    The Russian involvement in helping disperse Saddam's weapons, including some 380 tons of RDX and HMX, is still being investigated, Mr. Shaw said.

    The RDX and HMX, which are used to manufacture high-explosive and nuclear weapons, are probably of Russian origin, he said.

    Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita could not be reached for comment.

    The disappearance of the material was reported in a letter Oct. 10 from the Iraqi government to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

    Disclosure of the missing explosives Monday in a New York Times story was used by the Democratic presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, who accused the Bush administration of failing to secure the material.

    Al-Qaqaa, a known Iraqi weapons site, was monitored closely, Mr. Shaw said.

    "That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of [special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Mr. Shaw said. "And Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got there."

    The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that the Al-Qaqaa facility was defended by Fedayeen Saddam, Special Republican Guard and other Iraqi military units during the conflict. U.S. forces defeated the defenders around April 3 and found the gates to the facility open, the Pentagon said in a statement yesterday.

    A military unit in charge of searching for weapons, the Army's 75th Exploitation Task Force, then inspected Al-Qaqaa on May 8, May 11 and May 27, 2003, and found no high explosives that had been monitored in the past by the IAEA.

    The Pentagon said there was no evidence of large-scale movement of explosives from the facility after April 6.

    "The movement of 377 tons of heavy ordnance would have required dozens of heavy trucks and equipment moving along the same roadways as U.S. combat divisions occupied continually for weeks prior to and subsequent to the 3rd Infantry Division's arrival at the facility," the statement said.

    The statement also said that the material may have been removed from the site by Saddam's regime.

    According to the Pentagon, U.N. arms inspectors sealed the explosives at Al-Qaqaa in January 2003 and revisited the site in March and noted that the seals were not broken.

    It is not known whether the inspectors saw the explosives in March. The U.N. team left the country before the U.S.-led invasion began March 20, 2003.

    A second defense official said documents on the Russian support to Iraq reveal that Saddam's government paid the Kremlin for the special forces to provide security for Iraq's Russian arms and to conduct counterintelligence activities designed to prevent U.S. and Western intelligence services from learning about the arms pipeline through Syria.

    The Russian arms-removal program was initiated after Yevgeny Primakov, the former Russian intelligence chief, could not persuade Saddam to give in to U.S. and Western demands, this official said.

    A small portion of Iraq's 650,000 tons to 1 million tons of conventional arms that were found after the war were looted after the U.S.-led invasion, Mr. Shaw said. Russia was Iraq's largest foreign supplier of weaponry, he said.

    However, the most important and useful arms and explosives appear to have been separated and moved out as part of carefully designed program. "The organized effort was done in advance of the conflict," Mr. Shaw said.

    The Russian forces were tasked with moving special arms out of the country.

    Mr. Shaw said foreign intelligence officials believe the Russians worked with Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service to separate out special weapons, including high explosives and other arms and related technology, from standard conventional arms spread out in some 200 arms depots.

    The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said.

    Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons and explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt" in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency operations in Iraq.

    The Russian units were dispatched beginning in January 2003 and by March had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents on Russian arms supplies to Iraq while dispersing arms to Syria, the second official said.

    Besides their own weapons, the Russians were supplying Saddam with arms made in Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria and other Eastern European nations, he said.

    "Whatever was not buried was put on lorries and sent to the Syrian border," the defense official said.

    Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.

    The director of the Iraqi government front company known as the Al Bashair Trading Co. fled to Syria, where he is in charge of monitoring arms holdings and funding Iraqi insurgent activities, the official said.
    Also, an Arabic-language report obtained by U.S. intelligence disclosed the extent of Russian armaments. The 26-page report was written by Abdul Tawab Mullah al Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military industrialization, who was captured by U.S. forces May 2, 2003.

    The Russian "spetsnaz" or special-operations forces were under the GRU military intelligence service and organized large commercial truck convoys for the weapons removal, the official said.

    Regarding the explosives, the new Iraqi government reported that 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or high-melting-point explosive, and 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or rapid-detonation explosive, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or pentaerythritol tetranitrate, were missing.

    The material is used in nuclear weapons and also in making military "plastic" high explosive.

    Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.
     
  17. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Damn You! I've been trying to get that page to open for 15 minutes! You beat me to the punch on it.



    So, sounds like there may have been some WMD's after all huh? I'm so glad that moron Kerry decided to try and punk W over this, now he looks like an even bigger douche, if that's possible.
     
  18. unclematty

    unclematty 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Damn You! I've been trying to get that page to open for 15 minutes! You beat me to the punch on it.
    callin it like ya see it!! /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif



    So, sounds like there may have been some WMD's after all huh? I'm so glad that moron Kerry decided to try and punk W over this, now he looks like an even bigger douche, if that's possible.

    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  19. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Ya lost me man, do you mean the "douche" part?


    Do I think Kerry is a

    [​IMG]



    Well maybe

    [​IMG]

    just a bit
     
  20. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Democrats are fawking scumbags /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
     

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