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SOAPBOX: Facts vs. Opinions...

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by txbartman, Jan 31, 2002.

  1. txbartman

    txbartman 1/2 ton status

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    Gotta get on my soapbox for a minute... Then I'll go back to bein' my easy goin' self...

    This board has been incredibly valuable to me in the whole effort I have entered into with my Jimmy. I have saved countless hundreds with advice from people on here. I have also learned a ton and done things I never thought I would do. I was a shadetree mechanic in high school, but hadn't really picked up a wrench in YEARS. I did the typical brake jobs and such, but nothing serious. Now I have lifted my rig, built a 350 and swapped it into the rig, and installed new axle gears and lockers! Stuff I never thought I could do.

    But... One thing that really irks me off is when people use this board as a medium to convey their opinions as fact. Opinions are great. We can't all know everything, but I am sure we all have lots of opinions. And it is perfectly acceptable to express your opinion as long as it is conveyed as such. Opinions conveyed as FACTS are WRONG.

    Here are a couple of examples:

    10-bolts are worthless and pieces of sh1t - Are 10-bolts as strong as 14-bolts? No. Duh. Are they what many of us have and wheel with successfully? Yes. Do they blow up everytime you back out of your driveway or hit the trails? No. But, if you read some posts, you would certainly think so. If someone asks if they should upgrade their 10-bolts, don't reply until you know if it makes sense for them and what they do, not for you and yours. And, if someone asks about gears for their 10-bolt, don't be so lame as to reply "oh you should just scrap it and go with a 14-bolt". That doesn't address their question or help them out. Many people on this site have driven and wheeled pretty darn hard for a long time on 10-bolts and never had a problem.

    700R4s suck and are a waste of money - Okay. Yeah right. Again, are they as strong as a 350 or a 400? Probably not. Are they as reliable as a 465? No. But, how can you honestly say if they are worth the money or not if you don't know how it is going to be used? And you don't know what is most important to them, criteria-wise.

    --
    Sometimes around here its like walking into a car dealership and saying "I want a new car". So the salesperson wisks you away to this great little 2-seater sportscar that costs $50,000. Then you walk away confused trying to figure out how you are supposed to fit your wife and 3 kids into this "perfect car", how you can afford it when you only make $50,000 a year, and how you are supposed to tow your travel trailer behind it. But it is undeniably the "perfect" car. Any good salesman would first ask you stuff to find out what your needs are and direct you to what is best for you.

    I have a Firebird. Bought it brand-spanking new. Less than 50 miles from the dealership it crapped out. ECM died. Over the first 6 months there were several electrical problems. Even had to have the entire engine swapped out at 35,000 miles. But, when someone asks me about a Firebird, I don't say that they all suck and should be replaced with a Taurus. That would be pretty shallow. I know that if they really were all like that then they probably wouldn't be in business.

    My point here is to offer help to people when they ask a question. And, if they don't provide enough info, ask before stating your opinion from your own situation as all-encompassing fact. And, don't spout off "facts" because you "heard from a buddy" or you "had a friend whose...".

    Be helpful. Don't make a post just to hear yourself talk. It's really self-debilitating. /sigh/

    I'm off now.

    Brian
    Check out <a target="_blank" href=http://tx85gmcguy.alloffroad.com>My Jimmy</a> with all her projects!
     
  2. AMEN, BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    American by birth, Marine by the grace of God
     
  3. Derf00

    Derf00 1/2 ton status

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    Very well said.............

    Derf00
    1990 K5 Jimmy 350 Edelbrock Performer TBI, 6in BDS Lift, Dana 60, 4.56, Corp 14B Detriot, 16x10 AE 589's, 37x12.5 SSR
     
  4. BowtieBlazer

    BowtieBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    I think I'll have to totally agree with this one...

    For those of you who dont think about it start thinking about it now. I am a college student and no I dont have rich parents who buy everything for me that comes out of my mouth. I am lucky enough that they buy a tank of gas for me, and I appreciate it. Too often while walking through the junk yard I am like wow a 14bolt or oooh a D44 or D60 or what the hell is that. Right when i start pondering man how and when am i gonna A)afford a real axle and B) find the time to swap it in and the more and more I ponder I remember hey my 10bolt hasnt broken yet. SO until my350/ sm465/208/3.08's &amp; 31's show me I have the the power and ability to break the ten bolt I think I'll worry about investing into some better axle breaking 33 MT's and see if they give me a reason to replace or upgrade. Sure its cool but i guess sometimes I myself start thinking about parts that aren't a necessity for my area and driving style. Really when i think about it I'll have no ground clearence wth 33's and a 14bolt if I ever swap over. Either way being realistic in observing other situations should be taken into account. because I have sen many of 10bolts wheeled under especially late model trucks sucessfully under a huge load.

    Not everyone or anyone in specific is a guilty party just somethign to think about.
    In my opinion all K-5's are cool, and unique, built not bought, and you are what you build. Keep the board rockin.

    Definately a pavement pounder...with the caveman clutch

    1985 GMC C-10 Shortbed
    1984 Chevy K-5 Blazer
     
  5. blazen91

    blazen91 1/2 ton status

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    Thank you. Member of the month. And I am not being a smart a$$. I totally agree.

    <font color=blue> WHO SAYS YOU NEED BIG TIRES?? </font color=blue>
     
  6. 90blzr

    90blzr 1/2 ton status

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    Yes, thank you. VERY well said...
     
  7. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Good post.
    Dep, BigJBear, Keith and I all debated some of the same issues you addressed. The best way I think people should respond and how I try to respond to many of the items you pointed out is "What do you plan to do with this truck?". I try to give the pro's and cons. For many a 14 and a D60 is overkill. Many 700's that die die because some body slapped a set of 35's on a truck with 3.08 gears. I try to point that stuff out and make sure the person has the big picture.
    It's a waste of money to rebuild say a 10 bolt if the guy is planning on going to 38's. Often some upgrades are cheaper than repair. Give the person all the options and the pro's and cons. Let them decide the way to go that's best for them. I agree...this site bias's towards built it big, over build it, than build it for your needs.
    Prime example is 10 bolt rear. Personaly I don't care for them I have blown one out in a street only work van at work. While you can score a 14 with the gears you want for $200 easy you also have to concider wheels, converting the front, etc. So a lot more than $200. Might be able to pick up a used 10 with the parts you need for $100. Or might be able to pick up a 12 or a SF 14 and still come out far cheaper and be plenty enough for the person. Give the options and let them decide.

    Women dig dents and flat paint!
    coloradok5.com/gallery/Grim
    75 Jimmy, Dollar
    Grim-Reaper
     
  8. riz

    riz 3/4 ton status

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    <font color=purple> I'm all for this post ! I don't wheel nearly as hard as a lot of you other members and it's sometimes hard to get the best information about MY Blazer ........I have 10 bolts.... I have a 700 ......... I get a lot of answers like theones about swapping out for bigger stuff and it just isn't in my budget or time to do right now. I want to have a Blazer that works great for what I use it for ! It's real hard at times to get the best advise I need to get to help me get my projects done for that reason. I don't mean to bitch and I hope that's not the way I'm coming off here, it's just that we all ( Myself included ) need to be morein tune with what the person is really asking for and on the flip side, we have to be specific in our posts when asking for help and/or advise ......... Great post !

    L8r,
    . Riz . <a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/rizmonkey>www.geocities.com/rizmonkey</a>

    <font color=purple> monkeys steal my underwear at night
     
  9. riz

    riz 3/4 ton status

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    <font color=purple> Sorry ....... another thing ........ We all need to fill out our profiles with as much correct and current info as we can.... this would be a great help if even for a reference guide ...... I don't know how many times I have refered to them for info.

    L8r,
    . Riz . <a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/rizmonkey>www.geocities.com/rizmonkey</a>

    <font color=purple> monkeys steal my underwear at night
     
  10. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    maybe move this drivel to NON where it belongs.

    what is a FACT?
    nothing more then an opinion you believe.

    oh and it was paying for a RAPE_TURE that was a waste of money

    formerly 77chev
    still a jerk though<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by m j on 01/31/02 07:35 PM.</FONT></P>
     
  11. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    actually if you pay more attention to what is posted your 10 bolts are well within the safety range with 31s or even up to 35s it is only when you get stupid and try and run 38+ that the big stuff becomes wise. what you may want to upgrade to is some sort off traction aiding differential

    formerly 77chev
    still a jerk though
     
  12. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

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    Watch for the muzzleflash!
    HMMMM sounds like your sig says it all MJ [​IMG][​IMG]

    <font color=blue> I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy!
     
  13. DesertDueler

    DesertDueler 1/2 ton status

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    I have had no problems with my 1/2 ton axles except when my 10 bolt rear let loose when I was climbing a hill that is close to 70 degrees and is 75 feet high. If you loose momentum you will slide down without really good brakes and luck. Well with my luck the rear end exploded so I lost momentum and when I hit the brakes my brake line broke. Thats why I rolled. Since then I switched to a 12 bolt. I wheel hard, but know my trucks limitations so I take it easy on the go pedal. And yes I am locked front and rear and only rockcrawl.

    86Jimmy 4"&35"MTRs,87 burb 4"&33"MT,69Firebird w/525 hp,and 70GTO live in PHX,AZ<a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/modifierperformance>My vehicles</a>
     
  14. Rebel88

    Rebel88 1/2 ton status

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    actually a fact is not just an opinioin you believe it is something that has been proven time and time again...and has never been disproven therefore there is no doubt that it is not a fact

    i agree totally with every comment in this post...i am a college student that works my butt off just to afford to drive my rig...its not as bad as some, or as big as some but it gets the job done...i dont have tellico or moab in my backyard, here in richmond i have mud all around me...thats what i hit most so that is what my truck is built for...i am just now putting a 14 bolt in my truck because i grenaded my 10 bolt, i would have rebuilt the 10 bolt but i just bought 39.5s so i dont think it will handle it...

    so to conclude i agree with you guys...qualify someones needs before you tell them what they need to do...

    Later

    Just tap it in...tappity tap tap...
     
  15. K5Jimmy

    K5Jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Good Post with sound reasoning.......I believe I'm one of small handful of folks on this site who can afford to buy whatever I want for whatever kinda rig I want......I run a moderately upgraded 12B rear (Mosers, Auburn) because it fits the way I use my truck, and I happened to have it layin' around.....I'm here for the comeraderie, and common interest.....couldn't care less about who has the biggest whatever.......always figgered "The empty wagon rattles the loudest".......Good Post, Brian......it expresses what this site is about......

    Stuck?...Hell no..I still got some gas left..
     
  16. K5Jimmy

    K5Jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Good Post with sound reasoning.......I believe I'm one of small handful of folks on this site who can afford to buy whatever I want for whatever kinda rig I want......I run a moderately upgraded 12B rear (Mosers, Auburn) because it fits the way I use my truck, and I happened to have it layin' around.....I'm here for the comeraderie, and common interest.....couldn't care less about who has the biggest whatever.......always figgered "The empty wagon rattles the loudest".......Good Post, Brian......it expresses what this site is about......

    Stuck?...Hell no..I still got some gas left..
     
  17. txbartman

    txbartman 1/2 ton status

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    I believe this post is exactly where it belongs. It isn't meant as a b1tch post or directed at anyone in particular, just meant as a reality check for all truly interested in assisting others in the sharing of our hobby, sport, and pasttime.

    I appreciate all the feedback it has received so far. We have a quality crew of folks here. And it is pretty easy for us to get caught up in the craze sometimes.

    September 11 reminded all of us to chill out and be a little more helpful and respectful of our fellow Americans. On here, we can successfully extend that to our fellow K5ers and even go as far as to say our fellow off-roaders.

    We come here for comradery, fellowship, advice, assistance, and to lend a helping hand. All I am saying is that we should remember that each time we make a post.

    Brian
    Check out <a target="_blank" href=http://tx85gmcguy.alloffroad.com>My Jimmy</a> with all her projects!
     
  18. sluggo45acp

    sluggo45acp 1/2 ton status

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    Right on the money Brian.

    <font color=red>All that is necessarry for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.<font color=red><font color=blue>Edmund Burke<font color=blue>
     
  19. muddin4fun

    muddin4fun 3/4 ton status

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    *applauds* I agree with you Brian! And this post needs to be here.


    Actually, both you guys are right on what a fact is
    From dictionary.com:

    fact (fkt)
    n.
    Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

    Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
    A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
    Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
    A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
    Law. The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.




    <font color=green>Can't sleep...the clown will get me</font color=green>

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.bluefox.tv/~lara>My Wonderful Site</a>
     
  20. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    The flip side of this post is the asker (if that is a word) needs to give us some info so we can make an educated response. If you don't spell it out in your question I go with what is in your profile. That is why I harp on people for not filling them out.
    As far as fact or opinion, opinions are part of what makes this fun. Anyone can say your 10B will hold up to a 30x9.50 AT or that if you are running 44" TSLs you need to one ton it. It is when you get into those grey areas like under what condtions (open/locked, biased/radial, 35/36, MT/TSL, aftermarket/stock shafts, ect) will that D44 or 10B hold up to a tire in the three foot tall range. Or what is the "best" trans to run. These are the questions that sometimes generate arguments and that is unfortunate because this board is a great place to get realworld info. MJ is sort of right with his comment about a fact being an opinion you believe. I say sort of because there are things that can be proven like firing order or bolt pattern, but there are also things that are accepted as true from practicle experience, say 3.08s &amp; 35s are too high a gear to wheel with. For someone with a question like "What gear should I run?" these are the kind of "facts" that need to be considered.

    Jim '80 GMC & '73 Blazer
    Body by Tellico
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.tellicok5.rockcrawler.com>www.tellicok5.rockcrawler.com</a>
     

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