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Sour grapes & Jeep guys

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 78Buford, Aug 7, 2006.

  1. 78Buford

    78Buford 1/2 ton status

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    To make a long story short:

    A few years ago, long time wheeler dude (who I still consider a friend) had two nice Jeeps with 33's, dual lockers, etc. In 2001 when I started wheeling with my club, this guy could do everything on the trails.

    Times change. In 2003, 6.2 Blazer and I both went to 38's with our fullsize rigs...his Blazer, my Ford. There was also a regular member (at the time) with 38's on a Toyota. The Jeeps on 33's could no longer run everything on the trails. The "shift" in the club was highlighted at Wellsville on Easter weekend in 2004. 6.2 Blazer and I both made it up a nasty waterfall that many other bling Jeeps could not. In fact all of the Jeeps could not. My friend with the Jeeps does not have bling stuff, but it works...just want to make it clear that I'm not calling a "bling Jeep guy." Anyway, Jeep guy hammers his Jeep on the waterfall and in one shot broke the following parts: front locker, front axle(s), carrier, rear axle, and the rear tire folded over (like when a ball joint pops on the front of a car/truck). Jeep guy is a very good mechanic and had his Jeep mobile in a very short amount of time...he is far better at building/fixing stuff than I am, and basically 99% of the general population for that matter.

    He knows pretty much every trail in Ohio, and he often leads our group around on club rides. Over the past few years, when he is leading, he nearly always picks out the tightest trails, narrow dumb shiat off-camber shelf trails with huge drop off on the sides, etc. (Kinda ironic though that he doesn't like to go on rough trails/obstacles that may break his Jeep). Several people in the club have griped about it, including myself. On at least one occasion (a few months back) at our "driver meeting" before the ride started, I specifically mentioned that I had no interest in running a trail as mentioned above that leads to a good challenging rocky climb up a ravine. There was a much simpler way to get there. To me, the obstacle was the rocky climb up a ravine, not some off camber crap that could quite possibly kill you if you slid off of it. I had ran that trail before, and made it through the area, but had no interest in trying it again.

    So what does Jeep dude do? First trail of the day: The off camber crap mentioned above. I was pretty hot about the entire situation. However, I gritted my teeth and drove through the place that the hillside is washing way, high above a ravine. When I (and the rest of us) made it through the area, several people commented about it. I asked Jeep guy why he went that way to get to the obstacle when I'd specifically mentioned avoiding it. He laughed & said that he didn't think that was the trail I was talking about. BullSheat. :surepal:

    I told the guy who was riding with me and several others in our group at the time, "OK, I followed you through that...see if you can follow me up the "Ugly Trail" as it's called. I also said, "If he breaks his rig on this next trail, I'm not going to have any sympathy whatsoever." He went first & broke one front axle & tweaked another one. When it was my turn, I made it to the top with a smirk on my face, but I said absolutely nothing to Jeep dude about him breaking...out of respect.

    Last weekend, similar stuff went down. The following is a copy/paste from what I posted last night in the members section of our club forum:

    I'm finished with following people in tiny vehicles down cow-paths that offer no challenge, other than rolling over the side of a hill to one's demise.

    I've noticed on several occasions within the past year that when a "safe" option to get to a difficult obstacle/trail or a "you may roll down a cliff" option is available, myself and those who are following me have been taken on the "risky" path. I’ve mentioned my dislike for this in the past, in a quiet manner...out of respect for "Senior" club members.

    A) I like to wheel difficult trails.
    B) I do not have a roll-cage.
    C) Even if I did have a roll cage, I'd rather not roll down a cliff.
    D) If someone wants to call me chicken sheet, go right ahead.
    E) Passive/Aggressive behavior gets old...purposefully leading someone on something they do not want to do, then smiling about it and making BS excuses for why it happened gets old, and people don't buy the same old line of BS after it happens a few times.
    F) If you can't be a "big dog" in the club anymore, and don't want to modify your vehicle anymore, that's cool.
    G) If you aren't willing to deal with element F, that's fine too...just realize that you've angered several people in the last few months...and people are getting tired of it.
    H) What really did it for me was this: On Saturday, a few members of our club needed to get back to the campsite as soon as was practically possible. We had two options: Follow the guy I've wheeled with for 5 years, or follow the two guys I'd met on the trail a few hours ago...who were going to run another entire trail before heading back to the campground. I, of course followed the guy that I view as a friend, and made it clear that we wanted the "easiest/fastest" way back to the campground. They (stranger guys who observed to be good wheeler dudes) ran their trail, and arrived back at camp well before we did.

    The attitude appears to be (whether admitted or not):

    1. "I can't drive my stuff up the trails that you guys can."
    2. "To compensate for the above, I'll have you drive down a bunch of stupid-tight trails or along a shelf trail that my narrow vehicle fits on, but yours is hanging over the edge."

    It's pretty damn sad when people would rather follow two strangers on a trail vs. a guy they've wheeled with for 5 years. After Saturday, this needs said. Take it how you wish.

    Bottom Line: I may be a prick, but I would not/will not/won't ever take people on trails that they may roll off a cliff to their demise/purposefully put them in a situation that they don’t like...if they have specifically told me they don't want to run that trail, or have made it clear that they don't want to run off-camber stuff on a hillside. I don't like the position that I and other club members have been put in on multiple occasions in recent months. This is something that I've thought about/been angry with on & off for at least a year. After biting my tongue for a year, I've had enough.

    Next month, I'll lead at Wellsville...

    Roy



    Anyone on here dealt with similar BS? :surepal:
     
  2. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    A GOOD leader, while still in camp, surveys what the group as a whole wants to do and picks the trail(s) to match.
     
  3. vortec

    vortec 1/2 ton status

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    i have a good friend who is a jeep guy. he pulls that crap, sometimes. i busted a mirror on a tree the last time i followed that dinky jeep down a tight twisting trail. the guy with the 2004 z71 messed up a whole side, though. what is fun about driving slowly in a really cramped area? it's like a crowded parking garage. our interests overlap, but he likes that tight junk and i like mud. when i lead, i try to find trails that have mud, but that also have nearby bypasses for the "clean" wheelers, and some good crawling stuff, which we both enjoy. but, he still gives me grief when i can't fit my beast in a tiny hole that the jeep will go, or on the occasion that i bury my axles in mud. i don't rub it in when my far superior torque gets me over rocks and up a hill that he has to winch through. i think it should be about fun and helping each other out when needed, not ripping on someone when they have a hard time. i'd never want to lose this old friend over our differences of opinion on this, but it has been a point of contention more than a few times.
     
  4. Metrodps

    Metrodps Strange but nice guy Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    "Bottom Line: I may be a prick, but I would not/will not/won't ever take people on trails that they may roll off a cliff to their demise/purposefully put them in a situation that they don’t like...if they have specifically told me they don't want to run that trail, or have made it clear that they don't want to run off-camber stuff on a hillside. I don't like the position that I and other club members have been put in on multiple occasions in recent months. This is something that I've thought about/been angry with on & off for at least a year. After biting my tongue for a year, I've had enough.

    Next month, I'll lead at Wellsville...

    Roy"


    A wise prince will always meet the needs of his followers therefore they will always need him. If he fails to do so they will revolt!

    You wrote that very tactfully I thought and gave good points that stated your case. I hope there are a few more full size guys who are in your club. But hey what part of OH you in?
     
  5. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    You worried about scratching your truck Roy? ;) :haha: j/k...

    Did anyone else speak up at the drivers meeting about the tight/dangerous trails? At the next ride I'd have multiple people speak up.. If you head off to the tight/dangerous trails again, leave the guy and lead the pack on your own... If he is the trail leader, he should take trails the group wants to do as ntsqd had said above... If he just wants to be a smartass or prick, then he shouldn't be a trail leader since he is salty and cant take his rig where the others will go....

    Hopefully one of these days I'll make it out on a ride at Wellsville with you! :thumb:
     
  6. 78Buford

    78Buford 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks dude. The club is based out of Columbus, but we literally have people from all over the state.
     
  7. 78Buford

    78Buford 1/2 ton status

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    The second Saturday of Septmeber (don't have a calender in fron of me), we have a club ride there. The last weekend ride was just a few of us that got together. Let me know if you can make it.

    Roy
     
  8. 78Buford

    78Buford 1/2 ton status

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  9. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    I didn't think you sounded like a pansy. I was just ribbing you some in good fun. :D I've never met you but have seen plenty of pics of your truck online.. Even thought your trucck is pretty wavy, doesn;t mean you want to go down trails where you risk your life. Cage or not.. :thumb:

    Wont have anything ready to wheel that early in Sept.(well I have the '90 on 35's..).... Maybe heading to FL that weekend to visit my Aunt. But will definately meet up with ya sometime in the near future!!
     
  10. 78Buford

    78Buford 1/2 ton status

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    Yeah, my point may be taken the wrong way by people who don't know me very well.

    Many people may be asking, "Why is a Ford guy babbling on a Chevy board?" Can't give a distinct answer, but one of my best friends is a member on this board, and I've also wheeled with JK5 a few times (AKA Jerry...AKA The dude that conquered the "Buford's Daddy") trail in my presence last summer...actually he introduced that trail to me...and I still can't do it. :o

    Also wheeled with a cool dude in a yellow K3500 (I think his name his MadMike) and a couple other guys from this board.

    It does seem odd to me that out of the three 4x4 sites I visit more than once a month, none are specific to my vehicle. The club website, this site, and Pirate (when I want to buy something or have an oddball problem that I can't figure out) are the only ones I pay any attention to.

    Also, to those concerned about poor grammar on my part above, I do know how to correctly spell the words "approximately" and "don't" or "didn't" :D

    Emmettology 101: I may have some questions about beefing the floor of my cab/adding a rollcage in the near future...the floor needs beefed before any thoughts of a cage. It's not rotted out, it's simply metal fatigued from flexing so much. I'll contact you in the near future about my options.

    Roy
     
  11. mrk5

    mrk5 The Sticker Guy Moderator Vendor GMOTM Winner Author

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    I've often thought there should be a site on the Internet dedicated to all fullsize wheelers. Some of locals even discussed starting a club with that kind of focus.

    We have a local website that is dominated by jeepers. I get tired of hering the phrase, "too narrow for a fullsize." I posted once asking about a specific trail and had people say that they prefered for fullsizes to stay off the trail, because it is up and back on the same route and it's too hard to pass.

    Story about a similar situation in my hot rod club. We were leading the group in our cuda. Some people were grumbling about the pace being too slow. So we kicked it up to 80mph through some mountainous terrain. Lo and behold, one of the guys has his motor chit the bed. Once we finally made it to the destination, one of the old timers in the club came up to me and told me that was great. He gotta kick out of it especially because the guy that lost his motor was the loudest grumbler. Our speedo didn't work in that car, so that was also when I found out how fast we were actually going. Gotta love a big block mopar. :D
     
  12. K30Blazer

    K30Blazer 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    man, just looked at your other post. You can type. That is like a friggen book. Anyways, I hear you. I am lucky though, the guys I wheel with out here have fullsizes and one guy has a jeep he thinks is a full size.
     
  13. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    snip.....
    I thot I had a link for such a place. I'll go digging.....

    Found it. Link's dead. :doah:
    Was: http://home.earthlink.net/~fsro/fullsze4x4.html
     

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