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Springer vs ORD ?

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by lifethroughdeath, Jul 19, 2003.

  1. lifethroughdeath

    lifethroughdeath 1/2 ton status

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    whats up guys, i've got a '90 K5 and i'm getting ready to order my suspension lift and i was just wondering which would be the best way to go? i've already got an ORD 1" body lift and in the front im going with the 4" TuffCountry EZ rides and 1" zero rates, and in the rear is where i need your input...go with the full Springer Suspension kit, or piece together a kit from ORD. I'm going to be running the ford shock towers up front, and / \ that style in the back, i was thinking of using the rancho 9012's as the shocks also.

    The truck is my daily driver / weekend warrior , i'll do some trails, some mud, not too many rocks around here, but i'm moving to PA next year so maybe there will be some there. so it's not going to see any MAJOR abuse as of yet, i just want something thats going to give me some good flex and some height, i've got a set of 35's waiting to go on too. /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
     
  2. boz42

    boz42 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    it really boils down to your personal opinion & what u are running. both set ups are designed to do the same thing, provide better flex than regular lift springs. the 2 just arrive at this point in different ways. both allow u to run a flatter spring, springer's set up lets u run a longer spring which has less curve per amount of given lift because it is 5" longer than stock. ord lowers the rear mounting piont by flipping the shackle which allows u to run a less arched spring.

    the only advantage i can see is the springer allows u to have a lot more droop due to its non fixed-mount shackle bracket. this allows u to have a ton more droop.

    i run the ord shakle flip. i am happy w/ it. i would like to see a springer set up working on the trail in person. i am not convinced that the springer set up would be worth me swapping since i am already running the ord.

    listen to what people say. take it w/ a grain of salt. buy what u like, cause it is your $money$. both are excellent choices for rear lift. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  3. ShitownK5er

    ShitownK5er 1/2 ton status

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    Hey Lifethrudeath where in pa are you moving too?
     
  4. Seventy4Blazer

    Seventy4Blazer 3/4 ton status

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    i have seen both in person and the work is AWESOME on both.
    welds looke GREAT, no rough edges or anything on cut metal.

    after seeing the springer setup work in person i said gimme, and bought a setup. i love it. it makes my truck look great in the garage.... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
    it was easy to install and i have flexed it out as best i can without the truck running. i think i have had it a year now and not even had the truck running it yet. but some day.

    anyway, the springer setup will have more droop. a softer ride unless you swap the ORD brackets around and put in the 57's. the ord seems to be more work to install. nor does it look as cool...not that that matters, but sometimes it is a good conversation starter. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    for the things i plan on doing springer is better for me.

    my advice, Springer setup.
    Grant
     
  5. K5 NUTT

    K5 NUTT 1/2 ton status

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    After running many a trail with Marv i am biased as i think the springer set up is the cats ass if you ask me...its a more aggressive set-up than the ord approach...but then again marv says you caqn't tow with it and what does he go and do...showed up to BB02 with a tandem axle camp trailer all the way from az...then heads to NM for more trail runs and finally back to az. with no problems...hopefully while in phx in sept i can pick up a set up from him...

    DW /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  6. La Barge

    La Barge Registered Member

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    no disrespect to ord, but no contest. i ran the ord and am currently running the springer. I'm in rocks more than you'll ever see, but also drive 100-200 miles daily for my job in the blazer. I can say best of both worlds and ever better in the rocks. I have played with alot of different set ups and i'm sticking with this one.
     
  7. wrathORC

    wrathORC 1/2 ton status

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    I think the Springer Suspension setup is the hot ticket for the trails. However, for the street it is what I call "engineering an accident."

    It promotes slop in the suspension because of another set of bushings. I imagine if you were to set something up to measure how much deflection there is if you press directly on the frame from the side there would be a lot more with the Springer setup. I suspect that the stock rear hangers are strong enough to handle the extra leverage since there is a brace on the back side of the hanger that goes to the bottom channel. On 2wd half ton pickups there was no brace. However, it can't be as good as stock as far as strength.

    I'd be willing to bet it is a ton easier to tip over in hard cornering because you won't start lifting the axle until it's way too late.

    The ORD one has got to be stronger than stock. I don't know if it comes with plates for the back side of the frame or not but that is the only way it could be stronger (won't distort the frame if the bolts start to get stressed).

    I mean, I was leery about doing this to my truck and I don't tow but I do expect my truck to corner well:
    http://www.wrath.com/projects/vehicles/images/84k10/liftandaxles/rightrearshackle.JPG
     
  8. 45acp

    45acp 1/2 ton status

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    Nate, The "Springer" setup is a really nice piece of engineering. Marv put a lot of time into planning the setup and then trial by use. It really works far beyond what the casual glance would let you see. I would have to give a thumbs up on anything he did.
     
  9. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    goofy leaves are a fad that has passed.
    never was a fan
     
  10. lifethroughdeath

    lifethroughdeath 1/2 ton status

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    thanks alot guys i was leaning towards the springer setup already so now that i have the "approval of the board", jk, looks like that'll be it /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    [ QUOTE ]
    Hey Lifethrudeath where in pa are you moving too?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Blairsville, PA in january
     
  11. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Had to post up on this one.

    1. If you want a soft running supension this is the ticket. I ran the EZ Ride springs on both front and read for about 3 years and it's nothing like the springer. I live 5 miles from Springer and about 2 years ago I went wheeling with marv and was convinced.

    2. It's very stable on the road. I run my rig to work as a daily driver and have no problems with it what so ever. It is a softer ride but is very stable on the road and at respectable speeds. Don't forget it comes with a trac bar for the rear.

    3. Don't let anyone fool you about stability, this system has been tried and tested quite a bit. Like K5NUTT said, marv towed to Moab and then to Farmington last year with his blazer a 19' travel trailer and I can tell you it was very stable.

    4. It's the $hit on the trails, ask anyone that has the suspension and has run it. No offense to thoes commenting here, but it's hard to ask someone for there comments if they have never run it, ask everyone that runs it what they think, then you will get a true picture of what is going on with the setup.

    5. It's simple to install and where else can you get 2' of travel with a bolt on system.

    6. Brian "Labarge" run a 3" body lift and a 6" suspension lift and 37 or 38" tires and has no problems with stability and he runs in on the road quite a bit.

    7. MJ's comments are totally $hit, he has no %ucking clue what he is talking about, that a typical comment for him.

    8. Do what you want, but if you are intresed in this get more information before you make your choice. This is a good system and has been tested and tried both on the trail and on the road.

    8a. Look as some of the pictures on both my webshots and marvs webshot and check out some of the travel and or trail we run. We run hardcore trails and take hardcore lines, and have all beat the snot out of our springer stuff and yet to have a problem...

    9. I like his system and run his system, and I challenge anyone that is running and ORD flip with stock springs to come out and run trails with me and or anyone that is running springer to take the same lines that we do, with the same amount of wheel travel, have not seen it happen yet, and don't think it will ever happen. If you want to play on the trails and want wheel travel, this is a killer bolt on systems.

    Good luck!!!

    Rob
     
  12. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    so how many people that HAD goofy leaf suspensions a few years ago STILL HAVE THEM?
    if it was the greatest suspension idea you would think no one would remove it, yet they all have.

    go look at the Jeepers and Toy crowd as they were the most prevalent users of that bandaid

    you do not have to use a goofy leaf to put longer softer springs in, the goofy has no bearing on spring rate

    I see the goofy leaf rigs are king off road, every competitor is runing them or wishes they did /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif so they could follow robzilla up the trail
     
  13. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    MJ,

    It seems as if based on you original comments and your previous comments, that you have surfaced once again.

    Your inability to read into what the original post was about is going to create a nice dialog here about something that your have no experience in.

    The original question was not weather or not the leaf spring are a thing of the past it as about Springer vs. ORD.

    We are not talking about competition rigs here we are talking about a person making a decision about Springer vs. ORD. The post did not say should I use Springer vs. ORD vs. Coilovers.

    Not everyone in this world or on this board or for that mattter on this post wants to covert to coilovers.

    The fact is that in your world goofy leaf springs setups maybe a thing of the past, but in the world of leaft spring user, it not all done yet. If we stick to the subject line, of the post, the question is ORD vs. Springer. Not vs. Coilover. Yes the the bid dawg, big dollar competition rigs the amount of rigs you see with coilovers is overwhelming. But that is not what we are talking about.

    If we stick to the subject line, my post and others are very relevant. Compare Springer vs. ORD and there is no comparision.

    Do you just like to make comments that throw the topics off, and create conflict?

    My point is very direct, if you want to compare springer vs. ord, follow me or anyone up the trail that runs springer and follow someone that runs ORD and see the diffrence, there is no comparision.

    I don't like to for the most part get into it with someone this way, but you have made a statement that you have no experence with.

    We run trails 3 weekends a month 8 months of the year, and wheel hard, and we wheel with some pretty bid dawg rigs, when was the last time you were out on the trail with some one running springer and or with someone with a ord flip.

    My experience come from trail running, lots of hours on the trails and many on this board that will agree with the amount of time we spend on the trails. Now when it come to bid block motors and cams, don't ask me cause I don't know. But when it comes to wheeling a blazer on a hardcore trail in the rocks with a springer suspension bring on the questions, because I have the experience.

    Your statement comes without experience.


    *****Anyone reading this, please understand I don't use the little graemlins in my posts, so don't get overly offended because you don't see them, just read it like it's typed, remember it's only a sport not a lifestyle****
     
  14. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    Why not use both? I remember seeing a picture on springer's website of one of his kits modified to be used with an ORD flip. It looked even better than a normal one. The plate that the shackle mounts to was connected to the ORD flip bracket instead of the stock hanger and it just seemed like a better idea. Sure it'll cost a little more but you gotta pay to play right? Here's a pic, I like it /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
    SS & ORD flip together
     
  15. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

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    When comparing the two you should take all things into account and compare them equally. The ORD kit is just a shackle flip and reuses your stock springs, the Springer kit is effectively a shackle kit and a longer leaf pack replacement. Comparing the two like this and the Springer kit is definately more bang for the buck when it comes to ride and flex. Add the 57's to the ORD kit with a 6" shackle and you come to a toss up between the two, a 50/50 split of opinions on ride and flex since they perform almost the same. The only thing I've seen with one and not the other is high speed passes down the desert with the 57's and a 6" shackle, I haven't seen that with Marv's yet but that doesn't meen its not as capable. I'm not sure if Marv still makes it, but I've seen the ORD bracket and the Springer kit installed together - guess there no comparrison there - they both win!

    I've been out wheeling with Marv and his green machine really keeps the tires on the ground and flexes out the big obstacles like a pro.
     
  16. FRIZZLEFRY

    FRIZZLEFRY 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I imagine if you were to set something up to measure how much deflection there is if you press directly on the frame from the side there would be a lot more with the Springer setup.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The deflection you would see would likely be equal to or less than stock.Marvs kit comes with a trac bar to control side to side movement.

    [ QUOTE ]
    I'd be willing to bet it is a ton easier to tip over in hard cornering because you won't start lifting the axle until it's way too late.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If your going fast enough into a turn to unload one of the arms,the arm unloading will be the least of your problems at that moment /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Iv had my truck tipped to almost 45 deg. (thats what my tiltOmeter mounted at the center of my dash said /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) more than once and the arm on the uphill side didnt unload /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Oh yea,Im runnin the Springer setup too /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  17. FRIZZLEFRY

    FRIZZLEFRY 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    so how many people that HAD goofy leaf suspensions a few years ago STILL HAVE THEM?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Uhhhh...me /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Also,there are no plans to remove it either /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    The reason they are removed from jeeps and toys is due to them unloading too easily under power because of the light weight of the vehicles.With the weight of a K5 or fullsize truck sitting on the arms,this is not as much of a problem.
     
  18. lifethroughdeath

    lifethroughdeath 1/2 ton status

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    in defense of robzilla, lets not forget the cost either, we dont all have mounds of cash floating around, & for 2' of travel try linking up your rear and buying the coilovers all for $533.00 (cost for a springer) /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
     
  19. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    surfaced once again? I never left.
    as always I state my opinion without regard to whether it is favourable recieved.

    as Borrego stated again
    long soft springs with long shackles are a better way to go then a goofy/droplink/3/4 eliptical
    I would go 1/4 elipt to prevent what I think is useless droop, others use an anti-roll bar
    IMO if the tire is dropping away from the springs it is no longer doing anything useful as far as tractive gains
    Baddog claimed he liked it as it let him run a longer shock, a longer leaf would also allow that.

    tRusty's truck looks to have more then enough wheel travel, to the point of the tire interfering with the tub

    the spring on the drooping side adds pressure back to the compressed side once it approaches full extension, same idea as an antiroll bar.

    trac bar with leaves is not a good idea = bind

    those are the facts as I see them, like it or not.
    I am selling nothing here.
     
  20. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    MJ,

    When was the last time you went wheeling? Useless Droop??? What are you trying to prove here? Do you have any concept what droop does on the trail???

    Dude, you opinions here are always welcome, but what the heck are you thinking, useless droop????

    I think you have some real conceptual issues with what droop is and how it's used.

    Real time use, that's what the topic was, nothing-about droop or coilovers or useless droop. Have you wheeled anytime lately?? When was the last time you had useless droop??

    Dude once again, your opinions are not qualified, have you used any type of suspension, or for that matter, have you used any type of suspension on the trails?

    I think there is a lot of web wheeling going on here?? Are you saying that the full spring suspension systems that Campbell Ent. Uses on there buggies are useless?? Last time I checked they are still building rigs with 1/4 elipt and standard leaf springs. His shop is 1 mile from my house, and I have seen quite a few in the shop and not all are coilovers.?


    Your comments come without real-time use "IMO".

    MJ, stay on topic, and talk from real time usages, not theories or ideas. Prove to me my droop is useless, or should I say my suspension travel....

    Let's meet in Moab and we will test your statements on any trail out there against your rig or your theory about droop????

    See ya.
     

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