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starter engagement

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by lasvegas, Dec 25, 2001.

  1. lasvegas

    lasvegas 1/2 ton status

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    Just finished engine swap in '78 K5. I put in ZZ4 motor and went to start it. I bought the compact hi-torque starter from GM. The selenoid throws and the starter turns, but it does not engage the flywheel. The truck has an sm465 trans. I bought the 14" flywheel from GM because the old flywheel had the wrong bolt pattern for the new engine. IS THERE A DIFFERENT STARTER FOR A MANUAL VERSUS AN AUTOMATIC? IF NOT, ANYONE HAVE AN IDEA WHY THE STARTER DOES NOT ENGAGE THE TEETH ON THE FLYWHEEL? Thanks
     
  2. Heavychevy

    Heavychevy Registered Member

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    There is different starter between auto and manual. Besides that, you may or may not need shims to get the correct tooth engagement. Some auto starters will work on a manual tho. Hope this helps. Love them sm465's!!![​IMG]
     
  3. bee32

    bee32 1/2 ton status

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    I don't know about there being a different starter but have you checked to see if the starter is too far away from the flywheel. You might have to take out some shims(if there is any). Or the new flywheel may be the wrong size. Just an Idea. Hope it helps. But it should be about an eighth of an inch between the starter and the flywheel.

    Brian
    83 K-5 4" on 35's
     
  4. lasvegas

    lasvegas 1/2 ton status

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    where do the shims go? There is no way to adjust the front to rear movement of the starter is there? I can only adjust up and down I would imagine.
     
  5. bee32

    bee32 1/2 ton status

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    they go inbetween the starter and the block. The bolts run through them.

    Brian
    83 K-5 4" on 35's
     
  6. lasvegas

    lasvegas 1/2 ton status

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    okay. Well the starter is bolted right up to the block right now so I would imagine that, if anything, the starter is as close as it is going to get to the flywheel. I know I have the right flywheel because I triple checked which the correct one was because of the old trans to new motor question I had. I also wanted the largest clutch I could get. So that narrows down the problem to the length of the throw of the starter plunger or the distance of the starter gear from the flywheel. That is why I wondered if there is a different starter for autos vs. manuals.
     
  7. bee32

    bee32 1/2 ton status

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    Sorry about that. I haven't run Manuals in awhile but Heavychevy replied and said that there is.

    Brian
    83 K-5 4" on 35's
     
  8. lasvegas

    lasvegas 1/2 ton status

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    I appreciate your input a lot!! I just do not know about this stuff but thanks for the info on shimming because I heard of it but did not know where they went!! Thanks
     
  9. bee32

    bee32 1/2 ton status

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    No Prob. It might be that the starter is too close and needs to be shimed away from the block to alow engagement. But it very well might be that it is a wrong starter. Wish I could help ya out more.

    Brian
    83 K-5 4" on 35's
     
  10. prjt_blzr

    prjt_blzr 1/2 ton status

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    I'm not sure about the GM compact starter but some of the aftermarket compacts have extra bolt holes. If the starter is turning without grinding I would bet that it is either installed with the wrong bolt holes or it is wrong for the application. Shimming is usually required when the starter grinds while trying to engage or does not release.
     
  11. 95 Silverado

    95 Silverado 1/2 ton status

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    the difference between automatic & manual starters is usually in bellhousing clearance, usually if it's wrong the starter nose won't go in the bellhousing far enough for the bolt holes to line up because the nose of the starter hits the inside of the bellhousing. the shims are placed between the engine block and starter mounting surface "when the teeth of the drive and flywheel are too close together", if this were the case you should hear some sort of noise, or the starter might stick in when starting, if that's not the case it must be a different problem.

    '95 Chevy Silverado 1500
    5.7 V8-NV4500- 3.73 rears
    See My Toys: http://community.webshots.com/user/wdb172454
     
  12. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I second prjt_blzr's thoughts. I just started looking at the mini starters, and the difference is 153 or 168 tooth. I think I have the numbers are right, or close, really doesn't matter, there are two ring gear sizes basically. The point being that the higher tooth count ring gear is a larger diameter. Look at some of the mini starter pictures online, you will see that most that are "universal" for Chev motors have multiple holes, (two pair I'd imagine) to allow movement of the starter either more towards the center of the vehicle, or towards the outside of the vehicle, to make up for ring gear size.

    Dorian
    My tech/links page: <a target="_blank" href=http://www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html>www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html</a>
    Why insist on counting when the ring gear has the tooth counts stamped in?
     
  13. 502Burban

    502Burban 1/2 ton status

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    GM has only used 2 different setups on all small-blocks, big-blocks and 90 degree V6 engines. Either 14" diameter, 168-tooth flywheel or 12-3/4", 153-tooth flywheel.

    The large diameter flywheel uses a starter with 2 offset (diagonal) mounting bolt holes. The small diameter wheel uses a starter with 2 mounting holes that are parallel to the back of the block.

    Most engine blocks are drilled for either pattern, so only difference is the flywheel diameter. Many aftermarket performance starters have dual pattern mounting holes that can be used with either starter.

    If you are using a stock replacement or remanufactured starter, just make sure that you have the proper one for your flywheel or flexplate, based on diameter and number of teeth.

    Other than that, the only other issues are clearance for headers, if you have them, and making sure that you properly shim the starter for the correct engagement. Otherwise, you can chew-up the teeth on your flywheel/flexplate, which is a real pain to replace.

    So, in your particular situation, you will only have to change starters if your new flywheel is a different diameter than your old flexplate.

    Robb
    <a target="_blank" href=http://community.webshots.com/user/robbrj>'73 GMC Suburban - 502DFI</a>
     

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