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Starter probs again ***PROBLEM SOLVED WITH GOOD SOLUTION***

Discussion in 'Pacific Region' started by Muddytazz, Jan 16, 2003.

  1. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Welp, in the last 3 months, i've gone through 3 flexplates and 7 starters. This morning i just broke the nosecone on my 8th starter /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif I do have a starter support bracket and shimming has always been an issue, but this time the shimming was correct (outragous amount of shim, but it was correct). Why the hell do i keep going through starters? Anyone wanna come to my place and take a look and try and give me some ideas? My ideas are turning out to be not working.
     
  2. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Starter probs again

    Only thing that comes to mind quickly is that the bellhousing isn't lined up with the back of the block "square".

    I'm just throwing an idea out here, I've never seen "indexing" mentioned for automatics, probably because you can't measure from inside the bellhousing, but perhaps you can measure distance from somewhere else to see if its "even".

    Like I said, no real ideas, thats just something that comes to mind, too much load on the starter nose if the teeth aren't meshing "flat". Did this just start happening randomly, or is there a new torque converter in place now (unevenly machined flexplate mounting pads on it?) or even complete transmission?
     
  3. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Re: Starter probs again

    my auto tranny and only go on one way, there are 3 locating pins that mounts the tranny to the block...but that was a good idea.

    This has been an ongoing problem since about August of last year. Only difference now is that i'm going through starters at a faster rate. This one only lasted 3 weeks /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
     
  4. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Starter probs again

    Well, you can always find one of the ones with a cast iron nose! (hopefully you don't break the block then!)

    I know what you mean on the bellhousing mating up one way, but if the bellhousing to block surface (either the block or tranny) isn't "square", the flexplate will be "tweaked" since the converter will pull it tight, even if crooked. This is something pretty common to check on manual transmissions now (because its fairly easy) perhaps you could check the flexplate to block clearance on both sides, to see how even it is?

    The problem with trying to measure like that is you'll have to find something on the back of the block that SHOULD be equi-distant from the flywheel on both sides.

    If the converter "pads" aren't machined flat (if that style) then the flexplate wouldn't be flat any longer. You could check runout on that pretty easily.

    I had a converter for a 400 that wasn't machined correctly, *all* the pads were too "short", and it finally allowed the drive tangs for the pump to strip out. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif If only one was too short or too long, I'd imagine that a broken flexplate would be pretty common.

    How about timing? I know that running with timing so advanced the starter is "fighting" the engine as it tries to fire won't help things, although I'm not sure thats sufficient to break a nose cone.
     
  5. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Re: Starter probs again

    little update here:


    I found out a little tid bit of information from the old timer parts
    guy at napa that is a retired GM engineer. GM casts there engine
    blocks at multiple plants and that there is a 1/2" varience in the
    mounting surface of the starter, that is the whole reason for having
    to shim it. The starters are all machined at the same spec.
     
  6. reddog64

    reddog64 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Starter probs again

    um.. get a lifetime warantee on the starter???? /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    Joking...

    That sucks man... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

    I
    'll ask the guy at the machgine shop see what he says... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  7. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Re: Starter probs again

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    um.. get a lifetime warantee on the starter????

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Napa will not warranty it cause the nose cone is broke, they say its my fault.....Bullsh!t
     
  8. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

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    Re: Starter probs again

    so break something else on it.... /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
     
  9. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Re: Starter probs again

    i though about going to a boneyard and finding a nose cone from there and swapping nose cones and then take it back to another napa lol
     
  10. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

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    Re: Starter probs again

    Now your thinkin like the fumes.... /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
     
  11. reddog64

    reddog64 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Starter probs again

    that's what i do...

    I now have lifetime warantee on starter, and alt.. go to wrecking yard and get both for cheap!!!

    Go get trail spares /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    LOL.. Did I say that??? /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif
     
  12. JK5

    JK5 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Starter probs again

    Jeff....could you be overtightening the starter bolts....
    I had that problem years ago....I was putting to much torque on the bolts..... /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
     
  13. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Re: Starter probs again ***PROBLEM SOLVED***

    Problem solved everyone. When I found out about the engine blocks being cast at various sizes, I did a little measuring against my dads 77 burb w/350 and my sisters 80 K5 w/350 and between the 3 engines, there was a 3/8 of an inch difference from the same spot on the top of the block down to the mounting pad of the starter. So, since machining a completely assembled block was out of the question, I found a cast iron nose cone off a dead AC Delco original starter and had to machine the pad down .090. Now the starter works perfectly with no shimming what-so-ever, and a paperclip is just slightly tight in the gap. If anyone else has had similar problems, try checking into what I've had to do. Thanks for all the ideas though.
     
  14. BurbinOR

    BurbinOR 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Starter probs again ***PROBLEM SOLVED***

    Wow, that is great news! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  15. kennyw

    kennyw N9PHW Premium Member

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    Re: Starter probs again ***PROBLEM SOLVED***

    That is good to hear! Sounds like you didnt need shims to start with but needed to go the other way... now you need to stamp a message in that starter for the next owner /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  16. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Re: Starter probs again ***PROBLEM SOLVED***

    the hell with that, the starter goes bad, and i'm swapping nose cones again and keeping the one i machined for the next starter LOL
     

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