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Steering Q

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by muddin4fun, Feb 6, 2002.

  1. muddin4fun

    muddin4fun 3/4 ton status

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    When I'm offroading....well let me put up a link for a pic for ex...please hold...

    mkay...<a target="_blank" href=http://www.bluefox.tv/~lara/off2.jpg>pic</a>

    In that pic, the steering wheel is straight and the front tires aren't. It just seems like it's too easy to knock it out of alignment like that. Anything I might do? Mayby the drag link is too loose?

    <font color=green>Can't sleep...the clown will get me</font color=green>

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.bluefox.tv/~lara>My Wonderful Site</a>
     
  2. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    welcome to bump steer.
    also the adjuster sleeve seems to bend fairly easy so the wheel doenst stay perfectly straight after a hard days work


    formerly 77chev
    still a jerk though
     
  3. jimmyjack

    jimmyjack 1/2 ton status

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    Define "bumpsteer". I think I have an idea but I'm still unclear about an "exact" definition. Anyone, seriously.

    That jeep thing? Yah I understand it....... Like my Blazer? <a target="_blank" href=http://community.webshots.com/user/blazerk5>http://community.webshots.com/user/blazerk5</a>
    Jim
     
  4. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    As the axle moves up and down, the distance between the steering arm (attached to the axle) and the pitman arm (attached to the steering box) changes. The link between them is solid, so something else has to change. As you've noticed, since you're holding the pitman arm in one place (via the steering wheel), then the steering arm moves, thus turning the wheels somewhere other than where you thought they should be pointed.

    The more flex you build into your rig, the worse this phenomenon becomes. Crossover steering helps minmize the problem, by creating a much longer link between the pitman arm and the steering arm. This minimizes the change of the angle of the drag link as the axle articulates. [​IMG]

    <font color=black>HarryH3 - '75 K5</font color=black>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck>www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck</a>
    It's a great day to be alive...
     
  5. jimmyjack

    jimmyjack 1/2 ton status

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    Harry, thanks. Jeez I was way off. I was thinking it was the adjusting I do as I drive down the road trying to keep the truck going straight! (duh)

    That jeep thing? Yah I understand it....... Like my Blazer? <a target="_blank" href=http://community.webshots.com/user/blazerk5>http://community.webshots.com/user/blazerk5</a>
    Jim
     
  6. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Actually, it can happen somewhat while going down the road, as you hit bumps the axle moves up and down. If the drag link isn't parallel to the ground, then it will be even more noticeable. This is the case if you install a lift kit, but don't install a special steering arm and/or pitman to correct for the lift.

    <font color=black>HarryH3 - '75 K5</font color=black>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck>www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck</a>
    It's a great day to be alive...
     
  7. muddin4fun

    muddin4fun 3/4 ton status

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    Thanks Harry! You da man! [​IMG]

    <font color=green>Can't sleep...the clown will get me</font color=green>

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.bluefox.tv/~lara>My Wonderful Site</a>
     
  8. Confederate9

    Confederate9 1/2 ton status

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    hooray for harry!!!
    other than crossover what are some fixes
    im puttin a brace on my steering box soon

    <font color=red>K5: Because size DOES matter</font color=red>
    85 K5 4IN LIFT 35 GOOD YEAR WRANGLER MT/R, AMERICAN RACING WHEELS
     
  9. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    There aren't many real "fixes" other than crossover steering. The best you can do is install the right parts to keep the drag link parallel to the ground, if you have a lift kit. ORD's sway bar disconnect can also help, as it prevents the sway bar from fighting with the drag link as the axle moves up and down.

    <font color=black>HarryH3 - '75 K5</font color=black>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck>www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck</a>
    It's a great day to be alive...
     
  10. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    parallel to the ground is not always the solution.
    the trick is to try and get the angle of the bar (this is hard to find words for) where as the suspension compresses it matches the springs as they compress and move the axle back (as they flatten/elongate).

    sorry i spent no time thinking before typing

    that will get you to where the bump steer is minimized for on road driving but never get close enough for off road one wheel stuffed and the other at full droop

    formerly 77chev
    still a jerk though<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by m j on 02/06/02 09:24 PM.</FONT></P>
     
  11. Twiz

    Twiz 1/2 ton status

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    Bump steer is how much and in what direction the toe (wheels) changes during suspension travel. I our case, if the front suspension compresses- the wheels will turn to the right, if the suspension droops or dips- the wheels turn to the left (generaly- it wil also depend on spring arch, bushings, drag link, etc.)

    bump steer is caused by axle laction links (springs) and steering links (drag link) not traveling on the same planes. A link that is 10" long will have a different arc than a link that is 20" long. In our case- the front axle has 3 separte "links" working against each other and the front axle. 1- leaf spring, 2- sway bar, 3- drag link

    1-leaf springs, there is realy not much you can do with this. It is the main locating link to the axle and all other links need to work with it, not against it.

    2- sway bar, install ORD discannects. This will help elimnate its impact on the front suspension geometry, because when hooked up- they have another (hinge like) piviot point and will eliminate its differnet arc from efecting the axle.

    3- steering links or drag links. Drag links should follow the front suspension arc as closely as possible. They should be set up to be as level (horisontily) as possible at the ride height. Theys should not bind in any way threw-out the suspension travel. Unfortunately, short of redesighning the entire front suspension- the stock steering gear is to close to the ale and that makes the drag link to short to elimnate bump steer

    -late for work - got to go, I'll polish this off later


    Cut/Copy/Pasted- smile. Hope it helps.[​IMG]

    <font color=white>.</font color=white>Eric
    <font color=white>.</font color=white>Twizted
     
  12. Twiz

    Twiz 1/2 ton status

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    What I was tring to get at earlier, was that;

    -with a solid front axle design, bump steer, and wheel shimmy are just part of the beast. It is a fundamental disadvatage to the solid axle design. This is one of meny reasons the new trucks have been going IFS.

    In our case- the bump steer is multiplied because of the extreamly short drag link (Dodges are the same way, and if you realy want to see what bump steer is, go drive a Twin traction beam Ford- YIKES!)

    All you can reasonably do is. Make sure all the suspension bushings, bolts, and nuts are tight and that there is minimal slop in the suspension. Make sure the drag links and tie-rod ends are in good shape (drag link wear is fairly common on chevs- a qick way to check them, have someone "wiggle" the steering wheel and watch the links for any slop) Make sure the alighnment is spot on. Also- too much toe out on a solid axle will have the same affect- more or less. Steering dampners might help reduce "bump" steer, but nothing will eliminate it.

    What is it doing exactly? Is the steering wheel being jerked when you go over bumps or is it trying to change lanes when you go over a bump?

    I hope this helps in understading what bump steer is, understanding the problem is the first step in fixing the problem.

    Twiztid

    Milikin' it- [​IMG]

    <font color=white>.</font color=white>Eric
    <font color=white>.</font color=white>Twizted
     
  13. muddin4fun

    muddin4fun 3/4 ton status

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    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    What is it doing exactly? Is the steering wheel being jerked when you go over bumps or is it trying to change lanes when you go over a bump?


    <hr></blockquote>

    Well, on the road it's fine. I couldn't ask for better road manners. Offroad, I hold the steering wheel straight and the tires do their own thing kinda...
    Like in the pic I posted above, all through that, I kept the steering wheel straight. It wasn't like I was fighting it at all. From that pic, it looks as if the steering wheel should have jerked or something! But it didn't which is why I'm asking this question. People say not to offroad with your thumbs wrapped inside the wheel cause the wheel could jerk and break your thumb...on my truck, the wheel doesn't jerk. That's why I'm confused and why I think maybe something is loose?
    I wasn't doing anything hard at all and when I was thru on that particular day, the steering wheel was so far off that the turn signals wouldn't stay on. If I'm wanting to do something besides bunny slopes, it's going to be difficult because I almost get no feed back from the wheel. So, I'm thinking the wheels are straight cause the wheel never jerked out of my hands or anything and really, my tires are turned.

    <font color=green>Can't sleep...the clown will get me</font color=green>

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.bluefox.tv/~lara>My Wonderful Site</a>
     
  14. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    If the wheel isn't retuning to it's centered position when you're driving down the road in a straight line afterwards, then start looking for stuff under the truck that's moving, but shouldn't be. Is the frame cracking around the steering box? Are the u-bolts loose on the leaf springs? Are the spring bushings shot?

    The only way you can have the problem afterwards that you describe, is if the relationship between the steering box and the axle have changed. NOT a good thing! [​IMG] Something is shifting around to change where the steering wheel is centered. [​IMG]

    <font color=black>HarryH3 - '75 K5</font color=black>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck>www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck</a>
    It's a great day to be alive...
     
  15. muddin4fun

    muddin4fun 3/4 ton status

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    I've got a steering brace in and have looked around 'the spot' for cracks...none there. New leaf spring bushings and in good shape, ubolts tight. It's got all new front end parts.

    [confused]

    What else should I check?

    <font color=green>Can't sleep...the clown will get me</font color=green>

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.bluefox.tv/~lara>My Wonderful Site</a>
     
  16. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Start looking at anything that moves, but shouldn't be, while slowly cranking the wheel from side to side. Something is letting the distance between the steering box and axle change slightly. [​IMG]

    <font color=black>HarryH3 - '75 K5</font color=black>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck>www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck</a>
    It's a great day to be alive...
     
  17. muddin4fun

    muddin4fun 3/4 ton status

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    Of just say screw it and do cross over? [​IMG] LOL!
    Thanks harry! I'll have to wait till this weekend. The whole work schedule cuts into the daylight, ya knows? LOL!

    <font color=green>Can't sleep...the clown will get me</font color=green>

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.bluefox.tv/~lara>My Wonderful Site</a>
     
  18. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    I hear ya! All work and no play... [​IMG]

    <font color=black>HarryH3 - '75 K5</font color=black>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck>www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck</a>
    It's a great day to be alive...
     
  19. Twiz

    Twiz 1/2 ton status

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    Refering to the pic.
    The steering-wheel is held streight, as the LF tire drops, the tires will turn to the left.- Thats bump steer, and is just the nature of the beast. There is really not much that can be done Keeping the drag-link paralel to the ground with a A/M "corection" steering arm- will help. Other than a complete redesign of the front suspension and steering links (like relocating the gear or cross/over steering) The bump-steer is just something we need to deal with.

    You (Muddin) didn't feel the steering wheel jerk because the wheels, tie-rod ends, steering dampner, drag-link, and most of all power-steering gear box took the beating. The driver is the last to know.
    Keeping your thumbs out-side the wheel is more for the manual-steering guys, or roll-overs, anything where the impact to to tires is un-controled.

    Weekend inspection list.
    1- tie-rod ends (tire to tire) gear to axle). Inspect them by haveing some-one "wiggle" the steering wheel back and forth, just enuff to slighly move the tires. Check for any play in the joints. - replace as needed.
    2- Drag-link sleave and clamps. Make sure the clamps are tight. This sleave is also how you can recenter the steering wheel.
    3- Is there alot of free-play at the steering wheel? If so, find out where. (bad tie-rod, drag-link, or exsesive lash in the 'gear)

    In my expiriance with a off-centerd steering wheel after 'wheelin. After checking the above and finding it to be O.K., a quick turn on the drag-link sleave with a test-drive to make sure- genneraly has solved the problem. - don't forget to torque the drag-link sleaves after adjustiong.



    <font color=white>.</font color=white>Eric
    <font color=white>.</font color=white>Twizted
     

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