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Stephen, using the 32 spline Doubler for the 465

Discussion in 'OffRoad Design' started by thatK30guy, Jul 29, 2001.

  1. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Is it possible to fab up a kit to use the '85 and newer 465 trannies with the 203 range box, adaptor, ORD kit, and a 205 from '84 and older? I would like to be able to use the older and tall adaptors, and don't care for the length because I'm using a long bed truck. What do you think? The whole idea is to use the 32 spline, with the 465 tranny.

    <font color=blue>Daddy told me while learning to pee......"if you shake it more than twice, then you are playing with it!!!"</font color=blue>
     
  2. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    TTT.

    <font color=blue>Daddy told me while learning to pee......"if you shake it more than twice, then you are playing with it!!!"</font color=blue>
     
  3. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    BTTT

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    <font color=red>My Wife:</font color=red>"Only two minor cosmetic problems: The inside and the outside!"

    <hr></blockquote>
    1972 K5 502CB,465,203/205Doubler,14FF/D60
     
  4. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

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    I'd pick up a 73-75 SM465/NP203 combo. Do the doubler business to it, and save your 32-spline SM465 for spare parts.

    The only 32-spline NP203s are the few that came on the back of a TH400. These would spline together, but there's no such adapter section. One that *might* work is the rare, tall-type SM465/NP208 adapter.

    Unless Stephen has some better ideas???
     
  5. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    The whole idea here is to eliminate the 10 spline and have a 32 spline 465 set up.

    The '85 and newer 465's were a 32 spline. Just a matter of fact of trying to find the correct length of output shaft on the tranny before mating the 203 range box and adaptor. The 400 version 203 and 205 would be used.

    <font color=blue>Daddy told me while learning to pee......"if you shake it more than twice, then you are playing with it!!!"</font color=blue>
     
  6. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I guess this idea is not possible or feasible for ORD to make?

    Oh well, at least I tried to make something work.

    Guess I will just have to keep looking around.

    <font color=blue>Daddy told me while learning to pee......"if you shake it more than twice, then you are playing with it!!!"</font color=blue>
     
  7. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    You could install a 32 spline input in the 203 and re-drill it's face to match the round pattern on the 465/208 adapter, or use a ford 203, some of it's round pattern might work out also. it's just a matter of having enough beef in the case face to re-drill it, or putting enough bolts in it to hold it all together.
    The stickout on the 32 spline shaft should work OK, maybe a squeeze short, but it shouldn't be enough to hurt it.

    Making the world better, one truck at a time.
    SW-ORD
     
  8. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Stephen-
    Why can't I use the 465 to 203 adapter Chevy made in 1974? I think the question that Wes is asking isn't about the adapter but more so the spline output and input into the 203. The total spline shaft length is 19 5/8". Do you happen to know the length of the main shaft 10 spline for a 465? The difference in length of these two shafts is what determines whether or not the 32 spline is long enough, too long, or too short to use with the 203 32 spline transfer case. The reason I know this question is because I asked Wes first and he didn't know. I'm getting all the parts in within a week to see if it will fit together, but I don't know if there's any other problems I should be aware of. More than likely I expect that I will have to shorten the 32 spline output shaft. We will see.

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    <font color=red>My Wife:</font color=red>"Only two minor cosmetic problems: The inside and the outside!"

    <hr></blockquote>
    1972 K5 502CB,465,203/205Doubler,14FF/D60
     
  9. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    The adapter for the 465/208 is about 8" or so inches long, the 465/203 adapter is 4.25" long, so there isn't enough there to work with. And since the factory splines are rolled on the shaft, the dia. of the shaft isn't big enough to put a 32 spline back on it. The only thing you could do is use a 27 spline connection.
    Short of completely building a shaft, the only way I see to do this and keep 32 spline is to use the 465/208 adapter housing and mate it directly to the face of the 203.

    Making the world better, one truck at a time.
    SW-ORD
     
  10. michaelm

    michaelm 1/2 ton status

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    so is the 465/208 adapter the same as the '32 spline, circular bolt pattern, 205 adapter'? seems that that is what you are saying but as i have never seen one thought i would ask
     
  11. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

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    No. This is the 32-spline SM465/NP205 adapter:
    <a target="_blank" href=http://209.53.37.213/~u2slow/tcase/adapters/sm465np205.jpg>http://209.53.37.213/~u2slow/tcase/adapters/sm465np205.jpg</a>

    The SM465/NP208 adapter is about 2" shorter, no shifter boss, and doesn't have the notch in the circular pattern.
     
  12. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    I hate to hang people up with my custom rigs, but what I'm asking Steve about is making a 465/203/205 doubler drivetrain with nothing less then 32 spline shafts across the board. I pulled my 465 and 205 apart and found one worn down 10 spline shaft and decided to design a bullet proof drivetrain using his doubler and a 465. I've discovered how to do it, but it's a lot of work and takes some hard to find parts. I'll be in touch with Steven and if he sees nothing wrong with the design, then he can post it on his site. As for me, I'm off to Boot Camp in three days and when I return, I'll be able to talk more. Taking a 208 adapter and making it work on a 203 is NOT the way I would go, but if it works for y'all, then so be it, mine requires the strenght to put up with a 515 HP 502 with 530 ft lbs of torque at 2800 RPMs!

    &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;In reply to:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;&lt;p&gt;<font color=red>My Wife:</font color=red>"Only two minor cosmetic problems: The inside and the outside!"

    <hr></blockquote>
    1972 K5 502CB,465,203/205Doubler,14FF/D60
     
  13. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    I think I get it now, the only 465/205 round adapter we have is in a truck and I haven't measured it. That must be one that uses the long input gear. I suspect there's one 465 32spl output shaft, and 2 input gears for the 205 to make up for the difference. That also makes sense since GM seems to try to make all their front driveshafts the same length and the 208 front output is a little farther back than a 205....

    A 205 should bolt right up to the 208 adapter, as long as you use the short input gear and trim the housing for the shift rail. And it's still 32 spline either way.

    Making the world better, one truck at a time.
    SW-ORD
     
  14. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

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    The adapter I posted is for the long-input 32-spline NP205:
    http://209.53.37.213/~u2slow/tcase/ford203/

    Whether its Ford or GM, the round transfer case pattern is the same. You should be able to make a full 32-spline SM465/NP203/NP205 doubler using these parts:

    1) 81-91 SM465 (w/32-spline output)
    2) 81-91 SM465/NP208-241C adapter
    3) 74-79 Ford NP203
    4) 77-79 GM NP203 input gear (TH400 type, 32-spline)

    Oh yeah... I guess Stephen has to be able to make a Doubler for this combination [​IMG]
     
  15. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    The thing is his doubler uses a 203 not a 208, The correct way to double a 465 with a 19 5/8 32 spline output shaft is to buy a rare 465 to 203 adapter and bolt it to the 465. Proceed to find a 32 spline 203(which will mate cause I've done that already) and then build a 4 1/4 inch spacer block out of Cast iron or steel(something that will expand at the same rate as the cast iron drivetrain). all it has to be is a block of metal with 7 holes for stud bolts, and one 5 inch hole for the shaft. One can get fancy and mke it 5 inches on the 203 side tapering down to 3 inches on the adapter side, but it's not necessary! Al this thing does is connect the two, it doesn't support anything like bearings! The foot on the doubler supports the doubler and the support on the adapter supports the 465. As long as it's the same material or like material, it should be as strong if not stronger then it's neighboring parts. All you're doing is taking an existing adapter and lengthening it. It really is that hard, the hardest part for me was rebuilding my 465 and trading the 32 spline shaft in for the worn 10 spline. If you look at the front of the 203, you will see that all it is, is a big flat piece of metal, really easy to work with. This is a project in the making and all I did is take Stevens idea of a double and improve my connect to it. I really think that the easiest way to do something is keeping it simple. K.I.S.S. We all know it!

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    <font color=red>My Wife:</font color=red>"Only two minor cosmetic problems: The inside and the outside!"

    <hr></blockquote>
    1972 K5 502CB,465,203/205Doubler,14FF/D60
     
  16. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

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    Well, since you already have the Doubler, you don't have the luxury of changing to the Ford 203 reduction box.

    You've hit the mail square on the head with the spacer you're suggesting. It sounds like the only solution without redrilingl the front of the 203 case.
     
  17. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Why would I go with a Ford 203? What would it gain me? And yes I do have the Gm 203 and have decided to go that route.

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    <font color=red>My Wife:</font color=red>"Only two minor cosmetic problems: The inside and the outside!"

    <hr></blockquote>
    1972 K5 502CB,465,203/205Doubler,14FF/D60
     
  18. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

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    The Ford 203 is a mirror image of the GM 203. The shifter and PTO are reversed. Anyway... the Ford 203 reduction case already fits the round pattern letting you use a SM465/NP208 adapter to join it to the 32-spline SM465.

    Now I haven't tried it, but the parts make sense. My only 32-spline SM465 is tied up in my truck right now, so I can't do a trial boltup. I have the SM465/NP208 adapter in my garage. I'll try to get a pic. There is small chance is may need a thin spacer, or grind a small amount off the output, or mill a small amount off the adapter.
     
  19. michaelm

    michaelm 1/2 ton status

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    hey u2slow,
    lets do it to my stuff. i have a 10 spline 465 laying in my shop that needs new shaft anyway so we could stuff a new 32 spline shaft in it. you can do the R&amp;D with my spare 465/205 and on my dime. BUT i want it done in a timely fashion. if your interested email me.
     
  20. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

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    Just a heads up. Careful what shaft you get, if they don't match lengths you'll have problems with first gear. There's two different shaft lengths and the difference is only 1/8 in. The best way to know what you have is to look at the large flat washer and look to see if it's tapered or not. Match the two shafts or you're going to have to buy all new gears. The shaft I bought took me two weeks to find, and it cost me $165 for just the shaft. Chevy wants $375 for just the shaft, and then you have to find a rebuild kit and they run about $160. Good luck, hope it works out for you!

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    <font color=red>My Wife:</font color=red>"Only two minor cosmetic problems: The inside and the outside!"

    <hr></blockquote>
    1972 K5 502CB,465,203/205Doubler,14FF/D60
     

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