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Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on "Lincoln Lockers"....

Discussion in 'OffRoad Design' started by Zeus33rd, Apr 2, 2002.

  1. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    I know that this subject has been beaten to death, But I feel the need to ask again and get the opinion of a "pro". /forums/images/icons/smile.gif As the owner of two completely open diffs...I'm lookin for an inexpensive to stop embarassing myself while out on runs with buddies. If I could afford the Detriot, I would definatley go for it. I'm lookin at/thinkin about weldin the rear diff in my '76. What do you think of the procedure outlined in the tech writeup on CK5.com on the 14blt? Do you think this would be a wise/prudent thing to do to a 12blt? Thanks in advance for any input.
     
  2. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    The only welded diffs I've spent much time around were in stock cars. We welded everything up solid. I'm not so fond of just welding the bottoms of the side gears. I know it saves the parts but as the gears try to climb I suspect it's going to put a lot of load on the carrier. As cheap as 12b. carriers are and given everyones propensity for upgrading later to a 14B, I'd weld it solid. Leave the front alone or put in a drop in type locker (lock rite). If you have access to other front axles for replacement parts, you could try the welded front but they turn like crap in higher traction situations with the hubs locked and I wouldn't want that on the trail.
    Better yet, deal with an open front and save money for a selectable locker. A locked rear will make you go places you never thought of, try that first.

    When done right it should be strong enough to live and as a temporary way to get some traction it's hard to beat.
     
  3. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    You say when's done right...What is involved in doing it right? How do you do it "wrong"? Can this be done with carrier in the housing? Can you, or anyone, give me details on exactly how to do this? Where and what need to get welded? I'm an experienced welde/fabricator, so the quality of the welds themselves is not a concern. Is there a favored or prefered method of welding to do this? TIG, MIG, Stick ect ect? I'm sorry for the non stop questions, but I want to learn as much about this as possible before I fire up the welder. Is there an article on the subject somewhere that I could read? I've read the one on CK5.com, Would like to read somethin with alittle more detail. As far as the fron goes, I never intended to weld it. Leavin it open for the time being while I save for the lock rite. Anyways, thanks for the info Stephen.
     
  4. K10ANDYKHAMNIC

    K10ANDYKHAMNIC 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    ", deal with an open front and save money for a selectable locker. A locked rear will make you go places you never thought of, try that first. "

    dont i know , i still havent got the stuff together for the front , and im afraid too kinda cuz of may latest greatest breakage took out the t case taihousing and the right front hub clutchring and u joint , and somehow my almost new JET th350 /forums/images/icons/frown.gif! ! dang my luck , or my right foot ...
     
  5. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    If I remeber right we welded the 9" up with 7018 and just welded some and let it cool, etc. we welded the side gears to the case and I think we welded the spiders in place too. Then cleaned it all up good and dropped it back in.
    Do a search on the boards here and on the pirate page for more details, theres lots available on the web about it.
    Things I think you could mess up would be welding it up with the parts a little out of position (probably hard to do) and getting the whole thing too hot and distorting the case.
     
  6. reddog64

    reddog64 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    me and trustyk5 welded mine a month ago and i love it.. kicks a$$ off road... do it to your 14 bolt if you dont have the $$$ for a detroit!
    just like the article, or one at www.k5world.com
     
  7. thebigdaddyof2

    thebigdaddyof2 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    I welded up my 14 BFF, gov loc carrier and have never looked back. Just remember to clean the metal very well before welding and clean the entire carrier before reinstalling. IMO, the only drawbacks to the welded carrier is when I have the small A/T tires on the truck, they seem to bark around corners more than the Swampers....
     
  8. 79Beast

    79Beast 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    My two cents on welded diffs. I used 5/32" 7018s to weld my Dana 70 rear. I'm running 44" swampers and I have had no problems out of it. In my opinion, the preferred method would be a mig or tig because of less clean up. I cleaned everything with brake parts cleaner (Albany brand is my favorite) and pre-heated with a torch. I welded the side gears to the case, spider gears to the case, and spider gears to the side gears. Ahh...delicious overkill. I think that you should tack everything in place with the diff still installed in the housing and axles in place to insure proper relationships of the parts. After that, remove the carrier and weld it up the rest of the way on a bench. Weld one part, let is cool some, and weld another part. I found an electric fan helpful both in the cooling process and to keep smoke blowing away from me. An ameteur welder should have no problem welding sufficient strength into the diff. However, CLEAN it like a pro. Chip every bit of slag, grind/chisel off every single weld bugger, and remove anything else that you wouldn't want floating around in your gear dope. Allow it to cool and reinstall. In my opinion, the weakness will almost always be an axleshaft. Mine are 1 1/2" diameter, 35 spline, and I broke one. (OK, I shouldn't try to tote the front tires on pavement.) The handling will be different. Individual results will vary some, of course. I experienced the rear end "pushing" straigth while I was trying to turn. It will be very important to have matching tires with equal air pressure on both sides of the welded axle. I like the fact that the handling is consistant. It will not lock and unlock. It is always locked and, thus predictable. I would recommend it to almost anyone, except on daily driven vehicles. I hope that I have been helpful. Let me know if you have any specific questions. Several of my buddies run welded diffs, and they are satisfied with them.
     
  9. pcorssmit

    pcorssmit 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    Just out of idle curiousity:

    For those that are welding the side gears to the case, are you removing the thrust washers from behind the gears first? Obviously this wouldn't be such a hot idea if you are just welding the voids in the gear teeth, but seems like it would be a good idea if welding to the carrier.

    Pete
     
  10. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    Don't know that removing the side shims would make a big difference since it should all melt together at the edges that you can get to, but there's also no reason why you couldn't take them out, they no longer have a purpose in there. They could create a place for some oil or cleaner to hide and contaminate a weld maybe?
     
  11. 79Beast

    79Beast 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    I left mine in. I prefer to tack everything in place just as it runs with the proper setup. If you tack, then remove the diff from the case, preheat it with a torch to remove anyleftover geardope. I left the thrust washers in mine. Seems like extra hassle to try to remove them. If I ever rebuild the spider gears and side gears in another axle, I'll use new washers anyhow.
     
  12. sagechicken

    sagechicken Registered Member

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    I want to have my 12bolt welded. I've made a couple of calls to some shops in this area and nobody wants to mess with it. Stephen, do you know of any shops in your area that would weld this up for me? The axle is out of the truck and I would be willing to haul it to someone that would do it right.
     
  13. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    I don't know of anyone here that would mess with it either, I know we don't have time to get close to it for quite a while.
    Have you considered a mini spool? You could probably have one at your door for under $100 and put it in yourself for the same effect. Anyone that charges for the welding is going to have at least $50 into it, probably closer to $100 since it does involve some prep and care with the welding.

    Generally the welded diff is one of those jobs that's traded for beverages with your buddies, most shops don't want to mess with it despite how well it can work.
     
  14. sagechicken

    sagechicken Registered Member

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    I think a mini spool would be a good idea. I will look more into it. Thanks for you input!
     
  15. pcorssmit

    pcorssmit 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    Thats kind of what I was thinking, about the weld contamination. Never really given it much thought, although I might if I were to do it again.

    Pete
     
  16. bherring

    bherring Registered Member

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    I know this is an old post, but if anyone is still wondering, I used 6011 first with 7018 on top on both front and rear and I think it's the best "get me further down the trail" mod I've ever done. I've romped on it pretty hard lately with no problems. Weld EVERYTHING together...don't try to save the carrier....they are cheap to find if you ever change your mind (which you won't unless you like lowered Honda street racing). If you can't find a shop to do it, just clean it up yourself real good and make friends with a compentent stick-welder and show him where to weld. Clean it again, put it back, and rip it up. -Beck.
     
  17. swamp donkey

    swamp donkey 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    I bought my truck used and it has either been wleded or has a spool.
    It chirps around corners, hops if I turn tight in corners, and if jacked up the wheels both spin the same way.
    Can I take off the rear diff cover in my driveway, look inside and see whats going on? what are the steps, and what do I look for.
     
  18. bherring

    bherring Registered Member

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    Re: Stephen- Your input/views/opinions on \"Lincoln Lockers\"....

    You don't have an open diff. Take the cover off and take a peep. If it looks like a govloc (see pics online...I guess) and it chirps around corners, then its about to break. That's exactly what mine did. Look at the clutchpack to see if any are out of line. Just pay attn. when you take it apart, don't torque the cover bolts too much, fill it back up, and keep on goin. Unless it's a govloc locking up. You might want to take that out. You DO NOT want that rear locking up on you on the highway. -Beck.
     

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