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Stick welders

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 84_Chevy_K10, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Well we talked big MIGs, small MIGs, and intermediate MIGs, now what about stick welders?

    I really like MIG welders, but I don't think I can jusify the cost of one right now, so I'm thinking for my little projects that I'm doing right now (welding on hydro ram tabs, weld-in frame patch) that I could buy a stick welder and use it instead, and then I'd have it for really heavy work in the future.

    So...considering that a stick welder isn't too bad of an item to have around the shop anyway, any suggestions on what kind to get? Particular models? Features to look for?

    I don't need anything with insane duty cycle either, as it will rarely ever be used.
     
  2. lukebaby1

    lukebaby1 1/2 ton status

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    Lincoln AC225 is a quality welder at a reasonable price. you can burn 6010, 6011, 6014, 7014, 7018ac. From 3/32 up to 3/16 diameter. The ac/dc version is about twice the cost and only has 125 amps on the DC side. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  3. lukebaby1

    lukebaby1 1/2 ton status

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    OOps, I forgot the best one /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif "308 stainless"
     
  4. big83chevy4x4

    big83chevy4x4 3/4 ton status

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    i got a really old lincoln ac225
     
  5. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    Lincoln AC 225

    You can borrow mine for however long you want if you come get it

    I have the AC225 and the SP135T, I wish I would have just gotten a 175 or so Mig, but hey I can still manage, and you're right, for basic projects, stick electrode isnt bad, I build a whole flatned with it
     
  6. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    i got a really old lincoln ac225

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah that's the one I saw at Home Depot. I was pretty much wondering if there was any need for a better one than that.

    I've used both AC and DC stick welders before, but not to the extent of preferring one or another.

    I really want a MIG but I don't think I can pull it off buying one right now. I'm either going to wait and get a MIG later, or get a stick welder now and get a MIG some other time.
     
  7. K1Orion

    K1Orion 1/2 ton status

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    I got a Miller 135XP mig. Its pretty basic but works.
    I want a stick welder for bigger stuff. Migs can be a PITA, gotta get everything real clean so you get penetration. It would be kinda nice to be able to just burn stuff together without spending a bunch of time prepping.

    What's a Lincoln AC225 go for$$$?
     
  8. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    It's $229 at home depot, or trade me that 135 a MIG for the stick welder. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif 110 v MIGs are kinda weak sometimes, but for light stuff they're great and super-portable.
     
  9. lukebaby1

    lukebaby1 1/2 ton status

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    $289.00 at sears.com /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  10. K1Orion

    K1Orion 1/2 ton status

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    I'll keep my mig, but it is underpowered for some of the stuff I wanna do. I bought it used and the price was right, so its what I got. The 110V thing is kinda nice except everybody always wants to borrow it. It gets used quite a bit by friends doing amatuer bodywork . /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  11. bowtiepower00

    bowtiepower00 1/2 ton status

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    I would, without a doubt, shell out the extra money for a DC welder. Any of the buzz boxes from Miller, Hobart, or Lincoln in the 225-300A range should work equally well. I don't know how good of a welder you are, but for a hobbyist who only does occasional welding I would recommend a 175A MIG unit for ease of use and versitility. If you want a kick-ass lunchbox unit that offers the ability to TIG weld as well, check out Miller's Maxstar line or Lincoln's Invertec line of welders. They cost more than the buzz-boxes, but more than make up for it with better weld quality and portibility.
     
  12. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Lol, the reason I wanted it was for amateur bodywork. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    I want to get a 175. My dad says we can make a cord that will create 220 volts from two 110 volt outlets as long as they're from seperate phases so that even a 175 can be portable. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    But for now, I think all I am going to be able to get is a buzz box.
     
  13. Cmoe

    Cmoe 1/2 ton status

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    I'm looking for a Miller AC/DC stick welder to use with my Miller Saddle Bag Mig welder I got from work.... The Mig gets it's power from the Arc welder.....
     
  14. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1 ton bucket of rust Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    My dad says we can make a cord that will create 220 volts from two 110 volt outlets as long as they're from seperate phases so that even a 175 can be portable. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Wow, man. That would be pretty ghetto. A lot of places won't have two receptacles of different phases right next to each other. And if you try to bring it to someone elses garage and do this, if the receptacles aren't labeled with their circuit numbers it's going to be difficult to tell which receptacles are on which phase. And even if you figured it out, you might be dealing with 15A circuits and #14 wire. And if you are plugging into GFCI protected outlets (as are required by code in any unfinished garage) you're just gonna keep trippin' the GFCI's every time you plug in. For true portability, you'd probably be better off making up a pigtail with the proper female cord cap on it and have a few different types of two-pole circuit breakers. Then wherever you go, if there's space available in the panel, you can put in a temporary 220V receptacle. It would be best if you had an electrician show you how to SAFELY install a circuit breaker in a household panel, and wire up the pigtail with a PROPER ground. Household breakers generally snap in and out, so you really don't have to mess with anything hot. But, safety is the name of the game when you're farkin' with electricity. Only takes .02 amps through the ticker to put you to sleep forever.
     
  15. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    I wasn't intending on using it that way at MY house, I've already got my own panel in the garage so getting 220 there is easy as pie. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    My dad is really good with electricity and is about to re-wire this entire house though so I don't think his idea is completely insane.

    All you'd have to do is stick a voltmeter in the outlet if there was any question as to whether you're on two different phases or not.

    Can you explain to me why this would trip a GFCI?

    Is this really a dangerous idea? I really don't see how, but if you could inform me, that'd be great.

    I think it'd be cool as hell to have a 175 amp welder that could work ANYWHERE where you can find electricity.
     
  16. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re-reading it, it sounds like you misunderstood my idea.

    We weren't going to hard wire the welder this way. The plan was to make a pigtail with a 220 volt outlet on it and use two 10/3 wires to feed the portable outlet. So if 220 was available, plug in. Otherwise, use the adapter.

    I can't really see how this would be unsafe. RVers commonly use adapters to plug into whatever electrical service is available. It'd be basically the same thing.

    Please explain this to me, I'm /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif on how two heavy gauge wires feeding an outlet instead of hard wiring it, which would essentially be the same thing in my mind, unless I'm really missing something here.
     
  17. Cmoe

    Cmoe 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    And if you are plugging into GFCI protected outlets (as are required by code in any unfinished garage)

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I don't want to be an a$$ but you stated that it on any un-finished garage is to be GFCI. My understanding of the building codes is any outside outlet (including garage, carport, porch and so on), any where where liquid is present or the posibility of liquids to be GFCI protected.... What code book are you looking at that says <font color="blue"> unfinished garage </font>?
     
  18. bowtiepower00

    bowtiepower00 1/2 ton status

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    For amateur bodywork, I'd avoid the Stick machines... Take some of that tax return money and get the MIG. You'll be MUCH happier in the long run... Even if it means waiting a year before you purchase a welder. Handler 175 Miller 175 Those are the two I'd reccomend. They will handle just about anything you will throw at them, and you should be able to get them for 20-40% off of the list prices at your local welding shop, or online.
     
  19. mofugly13

    mofugly13 1 ton bucket of rust Premium Member

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    You're dad's idea isn't insane, just sketchy for the reasons I mentioned. I figured you'd have your own 220V outlet all set up, but you were talking about portability. A voltmeter won't tell you what phase a particular receptacle is on. If you had long enough leads you could inseert them into the hot sides of two different receptacles and see if you get 220V, maybe that is what you mean.

    When your receptacle is GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) protected, that means the GFCI is measuring the voltage going out on the "hot" wire as compared to the voltage coming back on the neutral wire. If the GFCI detects current flow through the hot, and the same current flow returning on the neutral leg, then everything is cool. If the current coming back on the neutral does not match the current on the hot, the GFCI will trip. This is designed to protect people from electrocution. That is, If you grab ahold of the hot wire, and current flows through you to GROUND, then it is not flowing back through the neutral and the GFCI will trip. As an aside, if you grab the hot wire with one hand and the neutral with the other, then the GFCI WILL detect current flowing back throught the neutral and it will NOT trip. Then you will be doing the funky chicken, hoping someone is around to whack you with a 2x4 to get you off the circiut.

    Did that make sense?

    A 220V receptacle uses two "hot" wires for the circuit, no neutral. If you rig up a cord that plugs into two outlets on different phases, and one or both are GFCI protected, you will trip the GFCI because you are using current on the "hot" side of the receptacle(s) and not sending any back via the neutral.

    Don't get me wrong, your idea would work, and I'd probably do it if I HAD to have 220V and I was in a big pinch and there was no other way. But like I posted before, many houses are wired with #14 wire, which is rated by code to be used for 15A circuits only, I have a feeling the 220V welder requires a 20 or 30 Amp circuit. Hopefully the 15A breaker will trip, but I've worked on some older homes where you can take a hot directly to ground and the old azz breaker just sits there buzzing. Then you have a fire hazard on your hands, and fires that start inside a wall have a way of not letting you know theres a fire 'till you see wallpaper melting.

    Your dad can probbly show you what installing a breaker and wiring up a pigtail are all about, if you don't know already. Then with a few different breakers to fit a few of the different panels you come across, it's just a matter of popping the cover off the panel and installing your breaker/pigtail. Easier than finding receptacles on different phases, and it's done right. Two different breakers will probably take care of 90% of the homes where you might bring your welder.

    Lot's of people won't mess with electricity AT ALL. But if you give it the respect it deserves, and have a good understanding of what you are doing and how to do it, It's really no big deal. Rebuilding an engine is pretty daunting if you've never done it. But once you have you realize there's really nothing to it. Of course if you [darn] up while rebuilding a motor, there is very little chance you could DIE....
     
  20. justhorsinaround

    justhorsinaround 3/4 ton status

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    You got it right C'moe. Any outlet that can reasonably expect water i.e. bathrooms, kitchens, garages, external wall outlets and even porches have at least to be headed by a GFCI. Wow that was technical n stuff huh. Sounded almost professional. I'll go back to bein an idiot now. Good luck to y'all.

    Allan
     

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