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stick welding method

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Jonny-K5, Apr 8, 2005.

  1. Jonny-K5

    Jonny-K5 1/2 ton status

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    which way to you prefer?half moon? zig zag? we are being taught in my welding class to do the "step out" method, where you step out of the weld pool towards the direction that your going. doing this every second or so. i think its supposed to provide better penitration and burn clean the upcoming metal somewhat.

    reason im asking is causs the only students who are advancing in stick welding arent doing the step out method. they are just making a slow, smooth rate of travel with no extra movement. i've been told by the instructor that doing this makes an inferior weld. and if you weld in this manner on a test piece for certification, the weld will break.im assuming from lack of penitration. what do all the pro welders here think?
     
  2. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Depends on the rod you're using.

    6010, 6011...whip and pause. Same as 'step out' if I understand your description

    7014, 7018 straight drag

    7024 straight drag, almost full contact with the material.

    Really the only rod I 'manipulate' is the 6010 and 6011. It's a fast freeze rod and digs real hard so you need to get out of where you were, wait for half a second and then back in to fill the undercut you just created. then repeat about a thousand times or until you run out of rod. :)

    So...what rod are you using?

    Rene
     
  3. rdn2blazer

    rdn2blazer 1 ton status Premium Member

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    trustyk5 is correct, i passed all my certification tests G2,G3,G4 a year ago with those methods. had zero bend test failure. your instructor is a moron. we had two instructors at my weld class one got fired for selling certifications. the good one would not let you pass with anything less than a quality weld, thats who certified me. there are bad instructors out there.
     
  4. Jonny-K5

    Jonny-K5 1/2 ton status

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    ya, whip and pause, thats what i meant.

    we using 6010/6011... trusty, if you straight drag w/ this rod will it affect weld stregth? assuming that it doesnt burn thru. we are practicing on 3/8" plate.
     
  5. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I've never straight dragged that rod. I'd 'guess' you have wagon tracks when you were done though. That would be two tracks along both sides of the weld...undercut.

    It may sound silly but when I was being taught the instructor told us to count in our heads as if we were dancing. Sit in one spot for 1-2, move ahead on 3, come back on 4 and repeat. I usally move ahead about 1/8"-3/16" (approx) and then back in about half that. The counting helps keep you consistant so that each 'step' is the same as the last. With a bit of practice it actually starts to look decent after a while. Trust me though, 6010 and 6011 will never be a pretty looking weld.

    I would disregard what the others are doing and stick with the whip and pause. It'll come to you the more you practice, and then you'll move on to something else that'll frustrate you for a while. :)

    I spent 4 or 5 months just on the stick welding portion of the welding course. Once you have that part mastered MIG and Flux core (dual shield with CO2)come so easy it's sickening.

    Rene
     
  6. Jonny-K5

    Jonny-K5 1/2 ton status

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    thanks for the tips. i think the counting trick will help alot. :D

    BTW what type of helmet do you use? i want a nice auto darkening helmet, but cant decide between the jackson 3n1 or the miller. i've heard pro's and con's of both. what do you like?
     
  7. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I'm kinda old school, I use a regular helmet. I've heard good things on the Jackson helmets though. They definitely have the best head gear going.

    Rene
     
  8. speedyvision917

    speedyvision917 1/2 ton status

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    im currently taking welding and blueprint classes (for FREE :saweet: ) and theyve never mentioned whip and pause...could someone explain, i get the idea, just how far do you go then how far do you come back over the weld? the reason we havnt been taught this might be cuz one teacher is cuban and cant teach very well in english and hes got a bad case of add, and the others an old ex construction worker whos freinds have all been mangled and hes only been teaching a few years, he also has really bad add. i cant complain though im taking a 9000$ program for free and am getting 12 college credits for it!
     
  9. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Whip and pause only applies to 6010 and 6011, almost every other rod is straight drag.

    For how far to move back and forth go back and re-read my earlier reply.

    Rene
     
  10. R72K5

    R72K5 Banned

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    this is sure interesting, sounds all scientific and stuff, whip and pause ? the others ? wierd...
    6011 ? the others ?

    i have noooooooo clue lol

    sounds like i need to take a welding course, damn.,.

    my stepdad has a bunch of welders, he has a couple sticks, and a coupel m,igs, and a tig, im around them all the time, and he welds around me often, but i havent picked up amything at all from any of it, no idea.,. just so complicated, so many rods, so many wires, i dunno how anyone knows what wire or rod to use for what, or what settings, or anything, its insane,,.. way beyond me..

    i only welded once ever and it was with the old dome top stick welder of his and i dunno if i used the right rod or anything but i managed to fix what i was wanting to, but i forgot what it was, starting a stick weld is a whore i found out... the damn stick just grabs the metal, it sucks bad,, what a pita,..

    im not too sure about welders,

    but gimme an oxy acetylene torch and youll see me cut some freaking metal now! i tell ya! i can setup and fire one up and fine tune it just liek that and be cutting like crazy with no trouble at all, second nature, i love torches they rule :D
     
  11. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    You were probably using 7018 rod if you had problems with it sticking. Usually they light up just fine when it's a new rod, and then stick really bad if it's a partial rod. Single phase AC machines are the worst for that.

    There are a lot of specialty rods, but there are really only a few that get used often. 6011 and 6010 (same rod basically) is for root passes on stuff where penetration is crucial. The flux is cellulose based (wood fibre) so even if you don't clean it too well it's still OK to weld over with something else.

    The first two numbers tell you the tensile strength of the rod, 60 is short for 60,000 lbs, 70 is for 70,000 lbs etc etc.

    The thrid digit tells you what positions the rod can be used. 1 is an all position rod, so it's good for flat, horizontal, uphand and overhead. 2 is for flat and horizontal position only.

    The 4th digit designates the composition of the flux used. 1 and 0 are cellulose, 2, and 3 I can't recall, 4 is flux with iron powder added.

    For all around use I like 7014. It penetrates decently, doesn't stick and is easy to make look decent. It is an all position rod, although best used in flat and horizontal and has a little iron powder added...which smooths the bead out a little.

    We have a box of rods at work called harderenhelle (harder than hell :) ) The base metal of the rod is so hard if you try and bend it, it just snaps like glass. The weld bead is so hard it can't readily be machined. It's great for hardfacing buckets or anything else that sees a lot of abrasion. I use it to hardface dies that I make for our press brake.


    Rene
     
  12. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    Man I lucked out. 'Took a basic welding course a couple years ago at the local Tech school (adult ed). The instructor was a guy who was filling in (he didn't have the time to teach anymore). He was young but he worked as a professional welder everyday. He was damn GOOD. 'Said he hadn't stick welded anything in almost a year "so don't be too critical". It was a perfect weld; looked almost like he TIG'd it!

    I like stick welding. Just gotta keep practicing. Has anyone every use 6012 rod? We had a bunch of it in Iraq. Suppose to be for straight polarity, flat welding. But we used it RP, and it worked sweet, even verticle. :grin:
     
  13. LittlecountryK15

    LittlecountryK15 Registered Member

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    Im taking a class right now in High school where were are taught the wip and pause method.....it sucks really bad when first learning but once you get the hang of it the welds end up looking really good

    at school I have a old school helmet with a gold filtered lens in it.....it makes everything so much easier to see.
     
  14. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Yeah, 6012 and 6013 are near identical and are theoretically an all position rod (note the '1' in the third position) They're not a bad alternative to 7014 for general work.

    Regarding the gold filter lenses, I like them too but they do scratch easy and once they're scratched they're garbage.

    Rene
     

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