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still can't get back brakes to work

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by the excuse, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. the excuse

    the excuse 1/2 ton status

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    still can\'t get back brakes to work

    today i put in new rear brake cylenders a new longer rear brake line and i cant bleed them. i undid the rear line at the master cylender which is also new. then i attached a tube to it and the other end of the tube to a can of brake fluid. i used a combination of a mityvac and gravity bleeding. after about an hour the new fluid was coming through. so i tighten down the bleeders. then i got someone to press the brake pedal all the way down. the front isnt beld yet so the petal was at the floor. i then reattached the brake line to the master cylender and let the pedal back up. there isnt even a bit of pressure when the pedal is applied and the drums can be turned by hand when the pedal is fully down. i have the drums ajusted so the pads just touch the drums. any help would be good. thanks.
     
  2. NoSmog73

    NoSmog73 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    If you drained the Proportioning valve it will reset itself and you have to rest the proportioning valve..
    There is a button on the drivers side...Push it in and it should stay in ,that resets the valse and you should then have presure to the rear... /forums/images/graemlins/woot.gif
     
  3. 4xcrazy

    4xcrazy 3/4 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work *DELETED* *DELETED*

    Post deleted by 4xcrazy
     
  4. DwarF

    DwarF 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    Take it to brake check, and have them power bleed it. I had to do the same. Had a super soft pedal, even after a long time of buddy bleeding it. They flushed it and all was well. Of couse, this was after I replaced the proportioning valve.

    Good luck
     
  5. NoSmog73

    NoSmog73 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    [ QUOTE ]
    He won't have much if any pressure if the plungers for the rear brakes in the master cylinder are bad, which is common, it's usually always the rears that go out. And a reset button???? in the past 15 years of working on various vehicles, i have never heard of this "reset" button on a proportioning valve. no button that i know of, maybe an electronic sensor to detect pressure problems, but no reset button. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yea they have them on the drivers side it is covered by a rubber boot...I have a pic somewhere..I will post it when I can find it..(it recenters the valve)
     
  6. the excuse

    the excuse 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    i put in a new master cylender and new wehhl cylenders along with new calipers and exterdnded lines. the only thning not new is the proportioning valve and the hard lines. on my mc the small chamber is the one closest to the driver, this is the one hooked up to my rear brakes. the front brakes have not been bled yet. 4xcrazy thanks for responding to my posts so fast. the thermostat did the trick. anyways on yopur quenstion, the brake was pushed fully down when the line was disconnected at the master cylender and the bleeders were tightened down. i had an assistand do this. then i reattached the line to the master cylender. i know this will let in a tiny bit of air but it would gravity bleed faster if i just ran a bottle of brake fluid to the detached line, then reattach it later. i saw the reset button. it was like a little rubber thing that comes off a eyedropper. i pushed it in but it popped back out. it diddnt feel like there was anything inside accept brakefluid. is the rubber suposed to be a cover for an actual button? if so the button was already down. i pushed the rubber down a couple times but diddnt notice any change.
     
  7. the excuse

    the excuse 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    my proportioning valve also has a wire coming out or it i think its for abs, i dotn have abs anymore though so the wire is just cut off. my rear brake lines were also completely empty earlier today. should i do something with the wire coming out of the prop. valve? thanks.
     
  8. 4xcrazy

    4xcrazy 3/4 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work *DELETED*

    Post deleted by 4xcrazy
     
  9. the excuse

    the excuse 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    oh, well there is a wire coming out of it, and it goes to no where. maybe the p.o. changed it. i pushed the brake down so the master cylender would shoot out the brake fluid, held it down then attached the already blead lines. i figured when the brake was released it would just suck fluid from the lines in and further compress the brake cylenders.
     
  10. the excuse

    the excuse 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    are you sure the big resivore in the master cylender is for the rear brakes. i thought this was for the front because the calipers hold more and the front has most of the stopping power.
     
  11. 4xcrazy

    4xcrazy 3/4 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work *DELETED*

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  12. 4xcrazy

    4xcrazy 3/4 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work *DELETED*

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  13. POWERMAD

    POWERMAD 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    You are airbound like a champ.
    Now you can start from scratch and start to bleed the master cylinder on down.
    Time consuming and messy.
    This is how I do that job, kinda primitave but it works.
    Go to Napa or whatever yer favorite parts house is.
    Buy a jug of brake fluid and a pump.
    Open all bleeders and let em run dry. use hose over the bleedes into a can to keep the mess to a minimum.
    Close all bleeders.
    Starting at the right rear attach a hose from the pump to the bleeder.
    Have someone watch the master cylinder.
    Slowly pump untill fluid starts to flow into the master.
    Go to the left rear, pump untill air stops coming through.
    go to right front and then left front.
    Top off master and you will have brakes.
    Air travels up much easier than down.
    and continualy stepping on the pedal to bleed brakes causes air to be dissolved in the fluid.
    Once settled same problam again.
    And since air travels up it sets up in all the twists and turns of a brake line.
    If you are bound and determined to bleed em by the ol up/down method.
    Bleed the master first.
    Starting at the right rear.
    open the bleeder and have em push down slowly .
    close bleeder at the end of the stroke.
    Any resistence will cause air to be dissolved in the fluid.
    Myself I work on brake systems that require air to function.
    But learned that lil trick bleeding hydraulic clutchs.
     
  14. heavy4x4

    heavy4x4 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    are you sure the big resivore in the master cylender is for the rear brakes. i thought this was for the front because the calipers hold more and the front has most of the stopping power.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    yes i am positive on this.

    The front calipers are so close to the rotors, they do not require as much movement to adequately stop the vehicle. Also less brake line travel. shorter the lines, the less compression the fluid will do to work right, longer lines, the fluid needs to compress more, needing more fluid to acomplish this.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Wrong. You've got it completely backwards. The big reservoir is for the disc brakes up front. The small reservoir for the drum brakes out back. The discs need a bigger reservoir because as the pads wear, they require a lot of fluid to be drawn out of the MC.

    Oh, and brake fluid doesn't compress.
     
  15. the excuse

    the excuse 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    hmmm ok ill try that, maybe thats my problem all along. not enough fluid goint to the back brakes. thanks ill try it tomorrow.
     
  16. the excuse

    the excuse 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    ok now im really confused. the pump i have is a mityvac, it only sucks. i dont really want to buy another pump to push the fluid back through the system.
     
  17. NoSmog73

    NoSmog73 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    Just gravity feed bleed them all and watch that you dont run out of fluid..
    Also the wire you have is for the brake light on the dash..
    If it (the button is pushed in that means it is "tripped" and the center rod needs to be reset..I have the same problem but havent reset it yet...
    I know I read it on CK5 on how to reset it but cant find it...I will look for it....Mike
     
  18. the excuse

    the excuse 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    ok thanks. that would help. i gravity blead them today and it didnt do anything. thye still dont work.
     
  19. NoSmog73

    NoSmog73 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    [ QUOTE ]
    ok thanks. that would help. i gravity blead them today and it didnt do anything. thye still dont work.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ok I cant find the cross drawing of the inside of them but here is some reading I found...

    [ QUOTE ]
    Yes, the valve can "trip", and not supply fluid to the rears. I would fill the master cylinder back up, put the lid on, and step on the brake pedal (with both feet) fairly hard, and quickly as well. I'm pretty sure that will reset the valve. If it doesn't, I'm sure someone will know the correct way. I know it involves stepping very hard on the brake pedal very quickly, but I don't know if you should crack the bleeders open or not. I don't believe so.



    [/ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    In the Chilton manual, during the bleeding process, the pin (metering pin) must be held in. Either use a special tool or have a helper with a screwdriver or similar push it back in when the brake pedal is applied.

    that little rubber boot should just pop off there's a pin under it while bleeding the brakes the pin should be held out (theres a special toolto do it )

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I hope it helps /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  20. the excuse

    the excuse 1/2 ton status

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    Re: still can\'t get back brakes to work

    so i should pull the rubber boot off and pull the pin out? or did you mean push the pin in. it is already flush with the rest of the prop. valve. do i want it out when gravity bleeding then in when im done?
     

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