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still wont pass emissions! AZ emissions SUCK!

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by moturbopar, Aug 13, 2005.

  1. moturbopar

    moturbopar 1/2 ton status

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    Ok I still cant figure out why this thing wont pass. its a 79 blazer 350hp 330 hp crate engine 2.5" exhaust with cats. Has a edelbrock performer on it. I have now taken it through six times with no success. The first time it passed idle with no problem and failed loaded bad. I rejeted the carb now it passed loaded no problem and fails idle bad.
    loaded HCs read 85 max is 220
    loaded COs .80 max 1.5
    idle HCs 345 max is 220
    idle COs 3.20 max is 2.00

    I am not sure what to do, its not missing at idle, the idle mixture screws are set properly, and I cant find any vacuum leaks anyplace. Could the floats be set too high, maybe too much fuel pressure? I have new plugs, wires, fresh oil, and just about everything I can think of other than swapping on a new carb.
    Whats going on with this thing? :confused
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2005
  2. 1-ton

    1-ton 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    BINGO!

    If you have an old, sloppy, worn out, tired Qaudrajet carb, then this is probably your problem. A worn out carburetor can feed the engine excessive amounts of fuel from all kinds of places it is not supposed too, such as fuel wells and warped carb plates, thus causing the engine to run rich. Also, a worn out throttle shaft can cause a vacuum leak. The combonation of all these things can cause your carburetor tom be all over the place with fuel mixture.

    One way you can test for major carburetor problems is first, with the engine idling, screw one idle mixture screw in to full seat. If the engine dies, then that is good. Second, return that idle mix screw back to it's proper setting. Third, do the same with the other idle mixture screw. If the engine continues to run with either one (or even both)of the idle mix screws turned in to full seat, then the carburetor is feeding the engine fuel from somewhere it should not be.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2005
  3. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Some fudging required...

    You say you have an Edelbrock Performer??...It should pass fairly easy!..but here is a few things you can try to help it too pass..

    Adjust the idle mixture screw to obtain the highest and steadiest reading on a vacuum gauge(buy a cheap one if need be!)..then screw them IN equally until it sounds like it wants to stall--raise the idle speed a bit so it wont stall..

    Advance the timing beyond its "normal" setting by 5 degrees--make certain you have driven it far enough to get the engine FULLY warmed up by going on a highway for at least 10 minites..if you get stuck waiting in the parking lot at the inspection station for your turn at the sniffer,you'll be likely to fail,even if you leave it running at idle in the parking lot!--its best to be able to get right into the inspection bay if possible!

    Some vehicles pass easier if you pull the PVC valve out of the valve cover and lay it aside during the sniff test--not all states allow things to be monkeyed with at the emission test though..some are very strict about "visual" inspection..

    Adding 2 or 3 bottles of Isopropanol Dry Gas will reduce hydrocarbons dramatically--works just as good as that "Gauranteed to Pass" stuff they sell, at a much lower price...

    You SHOULD be able to get it to pass--your not flunking by much!--but be sure to re-set the timing and carb idle mixture to the "normal" settings after the test,so it wont ping or have other problems..

    Pretty sad when we have to make it run crappy just to pass an emission test,then go back to where it runs good,and being a polluter!..shows how much "good" an emission test does..all it does is make all of us into sneaks,finding ways to 'fudge" the tests so it will pass!--does absolutely NOTHING to help make our air cleaner if you ask me!--how many miles do we drive to the inspection place??--how much gas is WASTED on the dyno??--and running the engine long enough just to get it hot enough to pass??--ALL that gas burned,and sent into the atmosphere for NOTHING...!-- :doah: :mad:
     
  4. moturbopar

    moturbopar 1/2 ton status

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    thanks guys. the carb is a couple month old edelbrock 1406. Anyways took it through again today advanced timing, reset idle, and put in some of the gas stuff, it still didnt pass, but it did change.
    looaded HCs 129 max of 220
    loaded COs 2.23 max of 1.5
    idle HCs 595 max of 220
    idle COs .83 max of 2.00

    . Anyways anyone here know of a shop in mesa/ phoenix area that can get this thing to pass? This is the only vehicle I have ever owned that I havent been able to get to pass! :mad:
     
  5. 1-ton

    1-ton 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    If your truck came with an Air Injection Pump, and it is not working or removed, then this will cause the tail pipe emissions to be real dirty.
     
  6. moturbopar

    moturbopar 1/2 ton status

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    nope didnt have one from the factory. anyways took it back through with nothing else done to it, and this time the reading are
    HC loaded 160 max 220
    COs 1.49 max of 1.5
    idle HC 502 max of 220
    idle CO 5.17 max of 2.00

    Dont know whats up with this thing. I cant figure it out, why would things change soo much in less than an hour? the vehicle was at the same temperature and nothing else changed. The timing is solid with no misses, so could I just have a crap carb?
     
  7. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    What are you running on the engine ? EGR , PCV , air pump , or nothing ?
     
  8. moturbopar

    moturbopar 1/2 ton status

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    well the only thing it really has is the pcv and the cats. It passes the visual fine maybe I should just have some new cats put on, maybe these ar just bad :confused:
     
  9. down4thakrown

    down4thakrown 1/2 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    try a little bit of acetone or denatured alcohol in the gas tank.
     
  10. 85mudblazin

    85mudblazin 1/2 ton status

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    Maybe its just in Texas but isnt there a thing that if your truck is over 25 years old you are exempt from smog testing??
     
  11. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    Noth here yet :( Mine would pass regardless , I just hate going every 2 years .
     
  12. blazerguy 90

    blazerguy 90 1/2 ton status

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    Here is an idea that ive been told will work when trying to pass a smog test, run the fuel in your tank down to just about empty, put 3 gallons of colman camping fuel into your tank and go back and have it tested again, it should pass.
     
  13. TrcksR4ME

    TrcksR4ME 1/2 ton status

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    That is not an emissions approved carb, it is not gonna pass emissions with it...unless you monkey around with everything and it sounds like even then it won't pass. If you put a q-jet on it would probably have no problem passing.
     
  14. rpellicer

    rpellicer Registered Member

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    If I were you, I'd take it to a shop that will tune it while hooked up to a gas sniffer. A few of tips though:
    1) Back off the timing. This will cut down the CO.
    2) Adjust the idle with a vac gauge. Adjust idle screws to get the best vacuum. Small changes not noticable to your ear can cause a noticable change on a guage.
    3) Make sure the vac advance on the distributor is hooked up to a ported vacuum port (no vac at idle.)
    4) Test during coolest time of day possible.
     
  15. unclematty

    unclematty 1/2 ton status

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    `That carb is your whole problem, get a Qjet on that thing then we'll talk about getting it to pass.

    that ole thing is not even smog approved, I'm not saying it couldn't be made to pass but your gonna beat yourself silly trying to get it too. Get yourself a Qjet on there, then we can work with it. I could rebuild a Qjet in about 3 1/2 hours and get it to pass on a stock motor in another hour

    you've prolly got some small vacumm leaks inside the carb and the jets are probably huge for what you really need, set the timing where it says to in the manual. definatly change the oil after it running that rich the oil is definatly contaminated, make sure the EGR valve is opening at the correct time (no earlier or later), make sure your PCV valve is functional, it'll make a big difference too! good luck! and don't be afraid to ask QQQQ????? we are here to help! :D
     
  16. kgblazerfive

    kgblazerfive keymaster Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Take it to the station out on Greenfield if thats not where you are going the one north of the freeway. Retard you timing so much that it has no power, you can do it out front of the station. When I did mine the numbers were similar and it fixed it no problem. They had to push me off the dyno rollers cause it had nothing for power when I passed I drove It back to the street and advanced the timing and went home. What retarding the timing does is gives all the fuel time to get into the cylinder and the plug all the time to fire and burn it all. I had it like at zero or even five degrees after that or before depending on how you understand timing.
     
  17. moturbopar

    moturbopar 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks all, I have never had a problem passing with one of these carbs befor, well actually this is my first edelbrock, but I have used many of the carter AFBs with no problems passing smog. I have a couple q jets sitting around but I am not sure what they are off of anymore. I actually preffer the q jets anyways, the truck just came with the edelbrock so thats what I have been using. I guess I will look up the #s on these q jets and see what what i find.


    Thanks kgblazerfive, greenfeild is the one I go to. I have tried retarding the timing way back but no help passed idle but loaded was WAY off!
     
  18. kgblazerfive

    kgblazerfive keymaster Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Check your plugs and cap and rotor, carb problems show themselves at idle and ingnition problems when loaded. If your running cats are they new or old how hot are you letting them get before you take the test in order for them to work the exhaust has to get to operating temp. Accurate Auto off of Broadway and near Country Club is the shop I use to take all my stuff too Lee Weatherby is the owners name and he will help you if you need it. He is very busy at least last year when I lived there he was. If you think that you need new cats the performance shop in Mesa, Wilky's had high flow cats for $60 when I was there so that may be a route to go. Course you could just cheat and register your car in Globe and not have to deal with emissions but that takes the challenge away from it.
     

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