Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

stupid questions about fire...

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by beater_k20, Dec 7, 2005.

  1. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Posts:
    10,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Elkhart, IN
    so i'm sitting downstairs in front of the woodstove smoking a cigarette, staring at the flames... a random thoughts come to mind...if corn is dried (popcorn), why does it pop when you heat it? i would understand if the corn was moist, and the density of the moisture changing, but why the hell? another one... hydrogen is flamable, and oxygen is flamable. water is both hydrogen and oxygen. so why isnt water flamable? wouldn't it be possible for the heat to break the hydrogen and oxygen apart, creating more fuel for the fire?ah what the hell... why isnt gasoline flamable, but the vapors are?
     
  2. surpip

    surpip 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Posts:
    10,877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    sacramento ca
    Most of the inside of a kernel is composed of starch, which is a storage carbohydrate, or fuel. This starch is known as the seed's "endosperm" (meaning it is inside the seed). Its purpose is to provide energy for the living part of the kernel, the "germ" or embryo, once this embryo germinates and establishes a new plant. Starch has a large water holding capacity, and for this reason it has a number of industrial uses as a dehydrating agent in powder form. When you heat popcorn, the water that is ordinarily bound in the floury endosperm becomes a vapor and bursts through the fruit case, or "pericarp" of the kernel. In order for this to happen successfully and dependably, therefore, the kernel must be relatively small, and the hard, or flinty, outer shell of the kernel must be quite strong to resist the building pressure. This is why popcorn produces grains that are smaller than most field corn.
     
  3. dogdaysunrise

    dogdaysunrise 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    Posts:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Winterpeg
    Trying to remember learning that, something about the 2 parts hydrogen being stable and non volitile, and the 1 part oxygen being stable....

    dammit i should have paid more attention. I think it is something like that.
     
  4. mikey_d05

    mikey_d05 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Posts:
    10,453
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    In layman's terms it's the structure of H20 and the bonds formed between the hydrogen and oxygen that make it non flammable.
     
  5. randy88k5

    randy88k5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Posts:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lynchburg, VA, USA
    Well, Ill take this one...

    The water molecule is a polar molecule, meaning it is slightly bent. It kinda resembles Micky Mouse's head. The electronegativity of oxygen basically takes the electron from the hydrogen, leaving it as an exposed proton. These exposed protons are attracted to the more negative oxygen atoms of other molecules. They form a very weak bond known as a hydrogen bond. This only happens in a few molecules, due to their shapes and configurations. This very fact is what makes water the most important substance for life as we know it. It is very resistant to change due to these hydrogen bonds. When going from a solid to a liquid and then to a gas, all you are doing is moving or breaking these hydrogen bonds. The actual H2O molecules do not break. In electrolosis (adding electric current), they do break, and you can get hydrogen and oxygen moecules out, which is a principle behind many fuel cells.
     
  6. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Posts:
    17,577
    Likes Received:
    945
    Location:
    Massachussetts
    Electrolisis...

    Interesting..hence the "water powered car" I read about recently..uses ordinary tap water for fuel..has 2 stainless steel electrodes submerged close together in a tank of water..a high amperage current from the altenator arcs across the 2 electrodes,this breaks down the water and extracts the hydrogen gas--which is fed to a modified carb,and the engine runs on it!...

    Water is weird stuff!..it can put out fires..or make fire!..and can be a solid,liquid,or gas,just by changing its temparature!..:screwy: ..it can be explosive,when it turns to steam,and is confined in a closed chamber--and can exert tons of pressure as it freezes and expands..like when you forget to add anti-freeze on frigid nights and cracks your cast iron engine block..:doah: :mad:
     
  7. nc87k5

    nc87k5 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2003
    Posts:
    5,231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Carolina
    don't you have to add a catalyst to the water? that was one of my science projects in school, breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen. IIRC, I added Red Devils Lye to the water then the electrical current. course it may be because I was using a 6 volt battery and that wasn't enough current to break it down:dunno: .
     
  8. Russell

    Russell LB7 Tahoe Status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Posts:
    7,925
    Likes Received:
    337
    Location:
    Fort McMurray, Alberta
    Actually, water vapour will burn. If you've got a gas range, try getting the bottom of the pot wet when you stick it on the stove. You'll see that the blue flame turns orange, and it fizzles a bunch. Thats the water turning directly to steam, then burning before it escapes :)
     
  9. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    13,055
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Humboldt County, CA
    What if C A T really spelled dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. Jagged

    Jagged 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2005
    Posts:
    11,460
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    SWVA
    Flashpoint.

    That applies to any substance. Ever hear of a triple-point?
     
  11. Inu-Hanyou1776

    Inu-Hanyou1776 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Posts:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Murphy, NC
    Really that applies for anything too, it just so happens that water's melting and boiling points happen to fall where we can get to those temperatures very, very easily. Molten iron can be heated to a point it starts to turn to a gas too, but that point is so much higher than the already high melting point of iron that you need a lot of expensive, specially built equipment to heat iron up to that point, and even then only in very small amounts really.
     
  12. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Posts:
    3,381
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    So. CA
    Oxygen isn't flammable. Flame is the rapid Oxidation of something flammable. You need Oxygen to have a flame, but the Oxygen isn't what's burning.
    Air/fuel ratio. Each flammable substance has a minimum and maximum percentage concentration to sustain flame. If the concentration is above or below those limits, flame may happen but it will not continue w/o outside assistance.
     
  13. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    B.C. CANADA
    Where did you learn this stuff?
     
  14. spearchucker

    spearchucker 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Posts:
    1,556
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bay area, CA
    Are you sure that was an ordinary cigarette you were smoking?
     
  15. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Posts:
    3,381
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    So. CA
    The propane particular info came from work. We're working on the patio heater to end all patio heaters.
     
  16. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Posts:
    12,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    B.C. CANADA
    Okay cool Thanks :bow:
     
  17. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Posts:
    10,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Elkhart, IN
    i think so...
     
  18. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Posts:
    16,555
    Likes Received:
    157
    Location:
    Los Estados Unitos
    I knew it wasn't flammable, but I couldn't remember why. Thanks for that! :thumb:
     
  19. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Posts:
    16,555
    Likes Received:
    157
    Location:
    Los Estados Unitos

    I just had a funny thought from this... Wouldn't it be interesting if someone ignited the ocean? :thinking:
     
  20. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Posts:
    17,372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Gettysburg, SD
    I've been watching NTGEO, SCIENCE CHANNEL, and uhh, some other facy smart channel, and there was a special on something that vaporized the ocean, oh yeah, a comet.... I just woke up....
     

Share This Page