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Subwoofer cabinets are NOW going in my K5 !!!

Discussion in 'Audio' started by Greg72, Jul 9, 2001.

  1. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I decided to start a new thread since the last one was getting too long, and was a bit off-topic anyway.

    I have posted additional pictures of my progress on my subwoofer enclosures...check them out at:

    <a target="_blank" href=http://community.webshots.com/user/gblanchette72>http://community.webshots.com/user/gblanchette72</a>

    I did a calculation for NET volume (that's the area INSIDE the box) and I'm only at 1.0 CuFt...not the 1.25 that I actually need [​IMG]....I will probably finish the box and stuff it with some poly to "fake-out" the volume a little....I'm not sure if asking for an additional 25% volume is actually going to work and sound right.

    Ryan, Prem, DBlazer....any predictions??? [​IMG]

    The speaker will be a JL Audio 12W6....or maybe a 12W3. Someone told me the W3 is newer and "better"? Not sure if I believe that yet.

    -Greg72
     
  2. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

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    well from what i was told from a couple of jl spokepersons the w6 is a dual 6 ohm sub... so configuring those with you amp might be a problem.. look into the w3's... more flexiable for configuring.. the w6 was designed to run in a set of 3 subs.. As for faking the sub out for another .25.... dont know... you might get .15 or so... but then again.. i have used subs under what the man. recommended without any problems and sounded really good... only thing i can say is just to do it and find out how it sounds.. if you dont like it you can always change it.. or if you are really worried about the space you can go with a different brand of sub that uses less space then the jl... i know i use to have a idq (image dynamic) 15 that requered only .75 cubed sealed... and it sounded awsome in that size encloser... so you might look into other subs if you are really worried about the space... Also what amp are you goin to be using to push the subs... i know i have alot of ??? but just some things to think off.. heheheheh

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  3. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I have had good luck with JL subs in the past....I was thinking of the W6 because I thought it was supposed to be their most "stout" sub in their lineup (most power handling, most rugged construction, etc). I was planning on running the voice coils in parallel to drop the load to 3ohms.

    I have a total of (4) a/d/s PQ20 amps for this system. They can run either 80W x 4, or cn be bridged as 200Wx2. I was thinking of either running each sub on a 200W bridged channel.....or possibly a 200W channel to each voicecoil (400W per speaker)!!! [​IMG] I don't know if I wanted to use that much amp just for subs though...

    I still need to drive a total of (4) mid-bass drivers....two in each door, and two tweeters. I was originally thinking to push each midbass with 200W, and also put 200W to each tweeter. If I decided to go with the 400W per sub idea, I will have less channels of amplification for everything else.

    I'd be interested to hear other recommendations on 12" subs, in case the JL doesn't sound right. I don't mind spending some serious money for a quality sub, but they will have to play LOW, TIGHT and LOUD!

    -Greg72
     
  4. '73 K5

    '73 K5 1/2 ton status

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    I wouldn't say that the W3 is really better than the W6...what I've heard is that the W3 is just going to replace the W6 eventually. There are way more wiring options with the newer W3's. The W6's are only dual 6 ohm, but the W3's can be had with dual 2, 4 or 6 ohm voice coils.

    The boxes look good. Are you going to carpet them when you're done or spray them with some bedliner or something??

    As for those subs working in a smaller box, I wouldn't worry about it. I've built a handful of boxes for JL brand subs and from what I can tell, they're pretty forgiving...if you make it small, the subs still sound good. Can't exactly say the same thing for Rockford subs. Anyway, I remember reading a really neat article on polyfill several years ago in Car Stereo Review. It was kind of a grid. All you had to do was know one or two of the Theile-Small parameters of your speaker and it would tell you how many pounds of polyfill to use for a certain sized box and how many percent of a change it would "trick" the sub. I think you'd be safe with 1 pound in each box...should sound pretty good with that. Let us know how it turns out.

    '73 K5
    Chevy good...Ford bad
     
  5. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

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    The other day i went looking for amps and was talking to alot of peps and explaining that i have 2 4ohm 12's and that i was needing an amp to run them... i was looking at 4 channel amps and i got the exact same reply from everyone i talked to... they said under that configuration the best bet would to be run a 2 channel amp that will go to 2 ohm bridged... or a really big 2 channel amp that could push out enough power at 8 ohms or go with a mono block amp...the reason behind this was because it had to do with how the speakers move... each side of the signal you feed to the amps will come out of the amp different then the others... meaning the subs will not be moving exactly the same... One store went far enough to show me what they where talking about and it actually made a difference as the subs hit.. i didnt think it would if it was just a milli-sec off but it actually did... But under your setup i dont see how else you could do it... Do you already have the w6's already??? oh yea... the jl w6 is basically the exact same as the w3.. difference being the w6 in designed to be run in sets of 3... w3's you get 4 ohm, 8ohm, etc... w6 you get 6 ohm each side... So under your setup of 2 12's i think iwould look into the w3's more then i would the w6's... since the w3's are the same thing just under different ohm loads then the w6... As for other subs... My opinion on them and what i think sounded really good... look into the ppi flat piston drivers, The eclipse titianium (spelling ?) subs, or the new fosgate comp series.... (yes i left kicker comps out of it because i personally dont like them.. but the square design is kinda cool looking)..... But most of these subs are really expensive.. the eclipse i know cost around 300 each... the ppi i think cost about the same... but there are a couple of others you might look into... there are so many out there that i just cant say what it better then what anymore... listen at your local stores is the best thing i could say... lol... dont know if any of this helps or not..

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  6. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Prem / Ryan,

    I have a set of the flat piston PPI Pro-10's in my other car, and those sound good....but yes, PRICEY!

    I have been on the JL Audio website for a while this morning. They finally got the "box builder" part up and running. I looked at specs for the W3 and W6's and it looks like they are reasonably close to each other. There are a couple of nice things about the W3 though:

    1. No vented pole piece...that means that I don't have to worry about leaving the 3/4" gap behind the magnet....space is tight in my boxes, so this will help.

    2. Magnet on the W6 is very square-shouldered, and the W3 has a more rounded magnet structure. This will also allow me to squeeze it into the triangular box a bit easier. I think that W6 magnet is going to hit everything.


    More ideas:

    Maybe a 12" is simply too big for the box I ended up with? If I squeeze the 12" W6 into this box, my -3dB point will be 50Hz. It's what they call the "dB Monster" box design...a big bump at 80Hz, but it can't reach very LOW.

    I am also now considering going to a 10" sub. Before you get all worried that I'll lose SPL, consider this...I can use a 10W6 in a 1cuft enclosure....port it, and get a nice +3dB gain over a sealed box design....plus the -3dB point is 31Hz!!!! In effect, using a total of 2 ported 10" in my enclosures would be equivalent to running (4) 10's in sealed boxes!!! In terms of surface area that is WAY better than two 12's in sealed boxes. (314 sqin vs 226 sqin). [​IMG]

    The response graph on the ported 10's looks nice and smooth too. It's their "Normal" design at 1.0cuft, so it's not a 1-note-wonder like some other ported desgins.

    What do you think of this approach?

    -Greg72
     
  7. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

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    I would have to agree with you on the 10's... ive heard 10's sound like 12's and better then some 12's... and vise versa... the only real difference will be how low the sub will go and at what point it starts to vibrate itself... so... given you have 1 cubed on each side... and all other specs on it.. i personally would have to agree with the 10's for the practial reasons... but i still like 12's... but given your circumstances i think i would really look into the 10's as another option..

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  8. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    From the graphs...it looks like the 10W3 will be tuned to 35Hz, and the 10W6 is tuned to 30Hz.

    You are absolutely right...once you try to play a frequency below the "tuned frequency" of a ported box, the speaker will try to demolish itself...that's the tradeoff you have to accept with a 2nd-Order enclosure. Standard sealed boxes give nice predictable rolloff at low frequencies....but just aren't as efficient.

    Since I have decided that this needs to be what I call a "rock-and-roll" system. I am willing to give up some ultra-low (&lt;30Hz) frequency response to get the additional output where I will need it. This is a noisy truck, so I think I need to favor LOUD & PUNCHY over a PURIST AUDIOPHILE frequency response. [​IMG]

    To be honest... most people think that an 80Hz "BOOM" is low bass...the truth is that there is a lot of really deep stuff you can FEEL below that. Plus, even an 80Hz note has a 40Hz harmonic....without that harmonic, the music just sounds sort of flat, and unrealistic. I always get a kick out of demo'ing a system with really low frequency response for someone....they can tell something is happening to their insides (25Hz or 35Hz frequencies) but they can't really "hear" anything. THAT is really cool bass.....IMHO.

    And hey....the 10's are cheaper than 12's!!! Saving money, and playing LOUDER! What a deal!

    -Greg72
     
  9. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

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    sounds like you got it figured out... go with the 10's... i think you will be happier.. but i want to see pixs of it as you go...

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  10. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Well....the 10's will fit into my enclosures a lot easier, but now I have to snake a 3" diameter x 14.4" port inside the box too!!!!!

    Solve one problem......create another one! [​IMG]

    I will keep updating the photos on that WebShots account as I get further along. I may even post a system schematic, so you can see the layout of the whole system.

    -Greg72
    .....I wish this system was ready in time for BlazerFest!
     
  11. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

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    well check your setup again.. and check to see if you could go with a larger port or smaller port and change the depth of it.. i dont know the specs on the tuning side of it.. but you should be able to go with a 4 in. port that is shorter if i remember right.. as to where you could port it... thats a tough one...

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  12. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    You're not going to see much of me on this board today....I'm going out into the workshop and I'm not coming back until I have both the driver AND passenger side sub cabinets completed......well, actually I want to use the driver's side pieces as templates so that I can get "mirror image" cuts for the opposite side. Once I get all the wood cut to shape I can glue-and-screw both boxes together and start rounding off some edges and working on the exact location of the 10W3 and that pesky 3" port ( I think I have that solved though!) [​IMG]

    Wish me luck guys....I'll be posting more photos at the WebShots account later in the day.

    -Greg72

    FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN
     
  13. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

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    good luck and i wish i was there to help...take pixs.. hehehehe

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  14. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Wow, you guys know way more that I ever will on this subject.

    On the 10s vs. 12s deal--I think I'd rather have 3 10s than 2 12s. I've got the 12s now because I got the box for free and the 12s for $50 (brand new Fosgates).

    Tim
    '84 Chevy K10, lifted, loud, fast, and 3/4 ton axles
     
  15. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

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    well three 10's will hit a little harder but at the same time the 12's are able to play a little lower.... but good job on the subs and box... If you need anyone to help you do anything feel free to ask.. we are happy to help...

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  16. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Alright folks.....I'm a tired dude, but I finished the basic contruction of the two sub pods!!! [​IMG]

    I still have to do the shaping of the boxes and some of the trimming to get them to integrate with the interior in a "stealthy" way. It's amazing that when you do it well, all the complexity and trouble that you go through is hardly even noticeable in the final product!!!!

    Check out the newest photos at: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://community.webshots.com/user/gblanchette72>http://community.webshots.com/user/gblanchette72</A>


    ...to see the latest progress. I'm exhausted....I'm going to bed! [​IMG]
     
  17. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

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    looks good so far.. now go and jump into the pool and you will feel much better now... As for macabi inspecting the results... you would get better inspection if you shaped it like a bone.... hehehhe

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  18. CaptCrunch

    CaptCrunch 1/2 ton status

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    Hmm.... those boxes look alot like mine. Mine are also at 1 cubic foot and I have 1 lb of polyfill in each w/ 12 RF DVC's... and it sounds ok at best... but I need to get the RF Amp i got from Ryan in and see how that does. I really think I'll end up changing subs though which is ok... the DVC's I've had for a while and I also have been looking into 10's... I like the sound of the ported enclosure for 10's. But we will see... I have a lot of different ideas floating and one is to just nix the system all together... You can see a frew shots of my boxes at http://www.geocities.com/milnerlives_2000/blazer.htm
     
  19. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

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    dont kill the system yet.... come on.... so you got the amp??? kewl.. tell me what you think once you get it in and playin...

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  20. CaptCrunch

    CaptCrunch 1/2 ton status

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    Well the only way I would nix the system is if I ended up w/ another daily driver. Mostly it comes down to that I'm getting some flowmaster 40's on and they make their own sweet music too... plus I have had the top off a lot lately and now w/ a new amp I really don't want to risk it getting ripped off. But we will see... it is my daily driver for now and if I find a nice GTO at car craft this weekend with a for sale sign in it things may fly out the window...

    -Mikey
    1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.geocities.com/milnerlives_2000/blazer.htm>http://www.geocities.com/milnerlives_2000/blazer.htm</A>
     

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