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Supercharger- Might have a good deal here!

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Pookster, Apr 21, 2004.

  1. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

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    the guy selling it said it was off a carbed vette.

    Says its a Paxton Novi with all the parts for a carb.

    my question is, I cant find this "kit" on their website.

    Is it worth what he is asking for? He's asking for 500.

    intended installation is for a 95 Yukon 350TBI.
     
  2. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    not sure you will be able to just put it on a TBI 350. Its sdesigned for a carb, will have a blowthrough setup for a carb.
     
  3. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    If you can make it adapt to the throttle body, you'll still need a lot of other stuff. Just offhand I can think of:

    The correct brackets and pulleys to make it work with your serpentine belt system.

    A different MAP sensor that can measure both vacuum and boost. The stock one only measures vacuum.

    The correct programming for the fuel injection computer. It will need to inject a LOT more fuel under boost. Some setups even require an extra injector be plumbed in to supply enough extra fuel.
     
  4. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    I would pass....Because of All of what Harry said. Plus IMHO it just aint worth it to supercharge a TBI. Because of the MAP sensor You cant run much boost. So you dont really make that much power. You will get better more reliable HP/Torque gains with Heads, Cam, and intake.
     
  5. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Not to hijack this thread. but,

    What do ya think about if you added that to a MAF setup instead of a Speed density setup?
    I talked to a guy last week with a vortech & intercooler on a maf tpi setup, pushing 9psi boost, stock computer, stock chip. I asked him how much he bumped up his fuel psi for running a supercharger, he said none, running everything stock. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
    /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
    If he had it tuned it would probably pick up way more power.. but still i was shocked about everything else being stock and not touched. Seems like you wanna be raising fuel psi with boost psi. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif His seemed to work.
     
  6. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    If there's enough overhead available in the factory injectors, then the ECM can be programmed to compensate by just leaving the injectors on longer. But if the injectors aren't up to the task then the engine will lean out at high RPM and high load which can burn holes in pistons. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
     
  7. Lonnie

    Lonnie 1/2 ton status

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    You should stick with a kit designed for your vehicle.
    There is significant bracketry, pulley & fuel system differences that will cause a lot of grief & additional money to make it work correctly.

    Additionally, fuel injected vehicles mainly use revised programming or a fuel management unit to increase fuel pressure in relation to boost. You will not get these components with a carbureted kit.

    Later model GM computers cannot read boost & will not function properly with a 2 or 3 bar MAP sensor that is designed to read boost. To get proper fueling, you will need the fuel system and/or programming upgrades to prevent engine damage.
     
  8. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    the factory fuel pressure reg is referenced to manifold pressure
    your base fuel pressure should be stock but under boost it references against MAP
    perhaps the factory reg can handle boost ref, though I doubt it as all it should see in stock application is vacuum or atmospere
     
  9. bryguy00b

    bryguy00b 3/4 ton status

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    can u just throw a super charger on a stock carbed small block? are there any other things you have to change or could u run it just with a stock moter? i know you would have to change pulleys and stuff like that though..
     
  10. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I would pass and buy a small roots style Weind 144 or 174 blower. They are single carb blowers and can supposedly add roughly 100HP to a stock 454. I think those little blowers are pretty darned cool....you might need a small cowl induction hood to clear it though. They are a little shorter than the classic dual carb 6-71 Weinds and have better hood clearance.
     
  11. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    bryguy - sure, won't make great power, won't be all that reliable but you could.

    mj - TBI fuel pressure regulators are set and thats that. They only go up to a certain point, computer doesn't control it, unless you see wires attached to the fuel pressure regulator that I am missing every time I've looked at a TBI unit.
     
  12. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    I personally think it's a bad idea to try to use TBI for a high performance application like that.
     
  13. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    very, in my opinion TBI is just a base level efi setup for if you don't care that much abotu power. Aka why if I go EFI it has to be TPI or some aftermarket multipoint.
     
  14. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    a vacuum line or passage runs to the diaphram chamber
    that is how it is referenced
     
  15. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    right.
    my point was this dude doesn't have a MAP sensor with Mass Air Flow tpi, he's got a MAF sensor, and dumping 9psi of boost to it. Maybe it just reads that much more flow, and he can leave everything else stock... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  16. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    thats not factory on most TBI engines, its a Marine unit. Many people upgrade to this but like I said, not factory for automotive applications that I know of.
     
  17. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    A Mass Airflow Sensor tells the ECM exactly how much air is entering the engine in Grams Per Second. It's MUCH more accurate than a MAP sensor (which just aids the ECM in calculating a close guesstimate of engine needs at a particular point in time) and also self-adapts to most engine mods that are within the parameters of the ECM programming. Wilder cams, headers, etc. don't bother them until the engine demands exceed the programming.

    However, anytime that you add more air to a combustion chamber you MUST also add more fuel to keep the mixture from going too lean. The centrifugal supercharger kits that I've seen installed on TPI CamaBirds had 2 extra injectors plumbed into the intake system, just forward of the throttle body. They were programmed to supply the extra fuel requirements under boost conditions.

    I've read that some of them use an adjustable fuel pressure regulator that cranks the pressure up as boost comes in. That and some extra injector "on" times can squirt in enough extra fuel for mild boost applications.
     
  18. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    I am more familiar with ford efi
    I do not think I have looked at a chev TBI closely
    every ford uses a reg that is hooked to vacuum source
    fuel pressure is always relative to the manifold pressure as that is where it is being injected
    referencing to atmosphere doesnt make any sense

    with the throttle blades closed the pressure would be fuel pressure + vacuum
    as soon as they opened it would be the equivalent of losing about 15 psi fuel pressure as manifold vacumm drops

    you sure there is no vacuum source in a chev reg system?

    [​IMG]

    is that a chev?
    with reg mounted interal with TBI unit it appear to have a passage to the spring side of the reg which would be the reference line
     
  19. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Here is a link to an install of a vaccum fuel pressure regulator and some pictures of the units. That throttle body you showed doesn't appear to be factory to me, I could be wrong, and I don't really see the vaccum line, there is a mess of them. It very well may have a unit. I always wanted to install one of these on my 95 TBI pickup, if I were keeping my 89 burb I may well have done it on that.
    http://z28boy.cz28.com/tech-vafpr.htm
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    Sled dog is right Chevy does not use a vacume controled FP reg in tbi cars or Trucks. They did use it in marine applications on BBC to get better fuel economy.

    If you want to supercharge a TBI. I highly recomend you buy a Kit designed for TBI. They come with a chip and everything else you need. There are a few companies that sell them like Holley and Vortec. They only have around 5 lbs of boost. That is good for around 75 hp.Which is Not much, when you considr how much they cost.
     

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