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System equipment list ??

Discussion in 'Audio' started by SlyDog, Jan 22, 2002.

  1. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    Ok guys, bear with me [​IMG] I have to be the dumbest person on audio stuff, but I know what I like to listen too. I am starting to collect a list of the equipment I want/need and am hoping you can help! I like alot of bass but also clean sound. My problem is two things. Money and lack of top, doors, and carpet( I will be herculing). Here is what I have thought of so far.

    1. Sony Mini Disc Player MDX-CA680X $ 380
    ( I am set on getting an MD player [​IMG]

    2. 2 JL Audio 10W3 Subwoofers $ 139 each
    (I have heard many good things on these!)

    3. 2 6.5" speaker (brand ?)
    (I honestly dont know [​IMG])

    4. Amp (brand ?)(how many watts?)

    5. Tweeters ??

    6. Crossover, Equalizer?
    (Heard I need them but am not sure what exactly.)

    As you can tell I am utterly lost [​IMG] Any suggestions ?

    <font color=green>[​IMG]1977 K5 GETTIN IT AWN[​IMG]</font color=green>
    BUILT NOT BOUGHT
     
  2. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Sly,

    OK....I heard your desperate cries for help....and got the PM [​IMG] so let me see if I can help you a little bit.

    Step 1: Head Unit - It's the "heart" of the system. If you "cheap out" here, everything else suffers. You really need a deck with a high voltage output (4+ volts) and low source impedence....but don't worry about the impedence as much....the manufacturers that "get it" about high voltage decks, also understand the impedence part and give you good specs for that in the same decks. I don't know about the MiniDisc...so you need to lookup the specs on how powerful it is.....I'm assuming it's got PreAmp-outputs, and not just speaker level ones.....

    Step 2 - Power! - Subwoofers need a LOT more power than the other speakers in your system. I have the 10W3's also and I run 200W to each of them.....If you are willing to do that I can tell you that the sound will be PLENTY loud....even with the top off! You could probably get by with 100W per sub if you needed to, but that's as low as I'd probably go.

    Power for the other speakers can be a lot less.....The speakers are smaller and lighter and won't need to move as far to produce the frequencies and sound pressure levels you'll need to "blend" them with the subs. If you're going with a co-axial type speaker in the front, maybe shoot for around 50 - 75 watts each. If you decide to go with dedicated Mid-Bass drivers and seperate tweeters, you'll need more amplifier channels to drive them all.....

    Step 3 - Crossovers - YES PLEASE! You'll need one. I'd reccommend an electronic crossover over the passive (caps &amp; coils) stuff. Some amps now have the crossovers built in, so you don't even need to buy anything extra....very nice! The main thing to remember is that the SUBS need to play low frequencies ONLY!....and the Mid/Tweets need to play the higher frequencies ONLY...!! If either one plays outside of it's normal expected range....it won't sound right, and will waste power trying to play things it shouldn't.

    Step 4 - Equalizer - NO. Unless you are going to do something REALLY serious stereo-wise, an EQ is going to be unncessary expense. Don't waste your money on one of those in-dash ones either (even if it's cheap and has lots of cool lights and sliders!) [​IMG] They will RUIN the sound quality that you paid for with your nice head unit......so you lose twice (pay more, sounds worse). The positioning of the speakers and selection of good crossover points will get you MOST of the way there without an EQ. In these noisy trucks, I just don't think it's worth the trouble.

    That should give you some initial ideas on how to plan. I'm happy to elaborate on anything that doesn't make sense, or answer any new questions that come up as you start your research.

    Good Luck! [​IMG]



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  3. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    THANKYOU [​IMG]

    With the co axials could I just run say 2 or 4 of them plus the subs and that be all for speakers? I dont have a lot of room to work with so the minimum amount would be best for me [​IMG] Thanks again !

    <font color=green>[​IMG]1977 K5 GETTIN IT AWN[​IMG]</font color=green>
    BUILT NOT BOUGHT
     
  4. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    Which ones would you suggest? {speakers}

    <font color=green>[​IMG]1977 K5 GETTIN IT AWN[​IMG]</font color=green>
    BUILT NOT BOUGHT
     
  5. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    That would work fine.....

    It sounds like you need 1 amp for the subs (2x100 or 2x200) and another for the co-axials (4 x 50 or 4 x 75ish) If you get amps with the crossovers built-in, this will be EEEAAASSSY to wire up. Just run a set of pre-amp outs to each amp and then select the correct frequency range on the amp itself. Get it all playing....and then use the "input sensitivity" adjustment on the amps to balance the F/R coaxials output (on the 4-channel amp) and to blend the subs in so that they aren't too overpowering (on the 2 channel amp).

    Also, the 10W3's sound GOOD in a ported enclosure, and you'll have more output volume than a sealed box. The JL Audio website has all the specs you'll need to plan the enclosure.



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  6. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    Mucho thanks!! I will not be getting the system till about sept. (my 16th birthday [​IMG] ) but now I can do some research and know what I am basically looking for!

    <font color=green>[​IMG]1977 K5 GETTIN IT AWN[​IMG]</font color=green>
    BUILT NOT BOUGHT
     
  7. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    How does this sound?
    Rockford Power 500.2
    125 W X 2 @ 4 Ohms RMS @ 1% THD

    250 W X 2 @ 2 Ohms RMS @ 1% THD (this is what I'd use, correct?)

    500 W X 1 @ 4 Ohms Bridged RMS
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Plus it has a crossover

    HP 50-210Hz 12dB per Octave

    LP 50-210Hz 12dB per Octave
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Would that work? I am also thinking about the 12W3's [​IMG] This amp could handle them also if I understand it correctly.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by SlyDog on 01/22/02 03:25 PM.</FONT></P>
     
  8. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    One more thing for now [​IMG]

    Which would you take ? (mini disc players)

    1. Blaupunkt NEW ORLEANS MD70 CD/MP Player
    45 Watts (Max.) x 4-Ch
    4-Ch Low Impedance Pre-Out @ 4V w/Sub Output
    DigiCeiver with Sharx Adaptive IF Switching
    Animated Crystal Blue Dot Matrix Display with Angle Correction in Menu
    18 FM / 12 AM Presets, including 6 FM / 6 AM T.S. Presets
    2-Tone DIN Flip-Panel Face with Stealth Type KeyCard Holder
    Softkey Design Controls
    RDS with Station Call Letter Display
    12/24-Hour Clock
    Blaupunkt's 10-Second Anti-Shock Memory
    MiniDisc Name, Text, Title Scroll and Track Program Memory
    Controls optional CDC A08 &amp; IDC A09 CD Changers
    DMS with CD Naming, Mix, Repeat &amp; Track Program Memory
    Menu Options include: 6 Loudness Levels, Adj. Scan Time, 3 Hi-Cut Levels, 3-Band Digital Parametric EQ, EQ Slope Selections, Source Tone Memory, &amp; Aux-In for MP3 / MD / DVD
    Subwoofer Preamp Output
    Optional IR Steering Wheel Remote, Thummer III or RC09
    http://www.xplodsony.com/products/?CATEGORY=Mini%20Disc&amp;MD=MDX-CA680X

    I would go with the Blaukpaut ... its 80 bucks cheaper but sounds like it has more power ???? Man, this is confusing! lol!

    <font color=green>[​IMG]1977 K5 GETTIN IT AWN[​IMG]</font color=green>
    BUILT NOT BOUGHT
     
  9. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    September eh?........must be a Virgo like me!

    Why don't you head up to the Moab Blazer Bash 2002......we can meet up there in August and I'll give you a stereo demo you won't soon forget......!!! [​IMG]

    How's that for an offer?



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  10. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    Tempting proposition [​IMG] Don't know if the K5 would be ready by then .... we did go 4 wheeling in our Yukon though in Moab... succesfully did Elephants Hill [​IMG]

    <font color=green>[​IMG]1977 K5 GETTIN IT AWN[​IMG]</font color=green>
    BUILT NOT BOUGHT
     
  11. ChrisM72beast

    ChrisM72beast 1/2 ton status

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    As far as I'm concerned I'm not a big fan of either but since your looking at Mini Disc I would say go Sony. Blau-Punks have a somewhat nasty disposition when it comes to reliability. Maybe it has gotten it's act together, I don't know. As far as power goes that shouldn't be that important because you are or at least it would be smart to use an amp. Even if it's not that big it's better than using what's built in to the reciever. Your amp would be dedicated to only providing power. Nothing more nothing less. That will help your reciever generate less heat and thefore help its reliability.
    I like your idea of using the rockford fosgate as a possible amp choice. It is reliable, powerful and fairly accurate. It's not the best amp as far as being perfectly accurate but it's not bad. And in the type of trucks we have thats fine.
    The great thing about that amp is that you can wire the subs in mono and the 6.5"s in stereo. My only concern about that is if your running two 10" subs , and running it loud you may clip the heck out that amp quite often. I had a similar experience and I finally bought an amp just for the sub itself.
    One question, how come no CD player?

    Good luck

    Chris M

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/chrism72beast/beastpage.html>http://www.geocities.com/chrism72beast/beastpage.html</a>
     
  12. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    Hey Chris, so your saying I should get a larger amp for the subs ?? It will be a dedicated amp anyways so I thought that would work. The minidisc player I guess is for 2 reasons. Unique [​IMG] and less space of storage of md's .... but if it becomes a problem or price issue I might just go with the cd player. We will see ! My friend has a portable md player so he can burn and has burned ALOT of md's also.

    <font color=green>[​IMG]1977 K5 GETTIN IT AWN[​IMG]</font color=green>
    BUILT NOT BOUGHT
     
  13. ChrisM72beast

    ChrisM72beast 1/2 ton status

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    I understand that it would be dedicated to the subs...if you used the reciever for your 6.5"s. I'm just a big fan of not using a reciever for speakers. You'll get better sound, more actual non distorted power and less wear and tear on the reciever. Even a smallish amp (100 to 150 watts and not a Jensen or that type) would do wonders sonicly.
    As far as the Mini Disc I do understand the convience for you. I have a tape deck with a 6 disc changer. I like the options (because I DJ mixed tapes) of being able to switch medias. Still those Mini Discs are kinda cool.

    Chris M

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/chrism72beast/beastpage.html>http://www.geocities.com/chrism72beast/beastpage.html</a>
     
  14. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    I was already thinking of getting two amps. Would only 2 6.75's sound ok in the truck ?? Or should I get 4 ? Also should I go with 12" subs .. ? They would be 12W3's. Bass .. Mmmmm [​IMG]

    <font color=green>[​IMG]1977 K5 GETTIN IT AWN[​IMG]</font color=green>
    BUILT NOT BOUGHT
     
  15. ChrisM72beast

    ChrisM72beast 1/2 ton status

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    Two 6.5" speakers would not do the job as far as I'm concerned. My reasoning is due to the fact that most older Blazers have a lot of road noise (due to tires, rear differential and assorted squeeks and rattles) and the speakers are going to get drowned out by it. If you mount the speakers high (shoulder to ear level) that should suffice. Even with that you might want to go with a two speaker seperate system. Possibly a 6.5" mid with a 1" tweeter. That should do the job. If not, you can always add an extra mid per side to help in the 750hz to 2000hz area. That usually the average vocal range and it has a tendency to get lost with all the car noise. I would also, as Greg72 said, use an electronic crossover. It will allow you to "tune" your speakers to the environment accordingly.
    Hope that helps.

    Chris M

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.geocities.com/chrism72beast/beastpage.html>http://www.geocities.com/chrism72beast/beastpage.html</a>
     
  16. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    12W3's....... Sounds a lot like what I originally planned to do! [​IMG]

    Look at the JL Audio website before too much longer....the problem with the 12's (at least for me) was that the enclosures got too large for me to "hide" in my sidepanels. I just couldn't get the space without doing something really large and obvious.

    You'll probably realize the same thing, unless you are willing to just build a box and mount it behind the rear seat.




    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  17. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    Well you see Greg, I dont have any side panels [​IMG] I'll probaly end up with the 10's anyways because I want the most space possible ... and Chris ... I have flowmaster 40's gonna have 35 or 37" mt's and no top or door plus no carpet or anything so I think I'll go with four speakers [​IMG]

    <font color=green>[​IMG]1977 K5 GETTIN IT AWN[​IMG]</font color=green>
    BUILT <font color=red>NOT</font color=red> BOUGHT
     
  18. SlyDog

    SlyDog 1/2 ton status

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    Or should I go with 1 12" sub ? or 1 15" [​IMG] ... So many dern possibilities!

    <font color=green>[​IMG]1977 K5 GETTIN IT AWN[​IMG]</font color=green>
    BUILT <font color=red>NOT</font color=red> BOUGHT
     
  19. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Sly,

    Sounds like your "ready" for my Table of Speaker Choices now.....

    When I was planning my system I was trying to determine how much surface area I needed to get LOTS of low end punch. I knew that the K5 was going to be noisy and have an open top most of the year....so MORE subwoofer surface area was definitely better! I created this table to show the choices and how much overall surface area I'd have to work with. I also inserted a couple of "ported" 10's in there to show their "effective" surface area (2 ported 10's play as LOUDLY as 4 sealed 10's!....that's why the math initially looks weird in the table)....anyway here goes:

    Box
    Type.....Qty.........Dia.........Area.......Total Area
    ......................................sq in.......sq in.
    Sealed 1 10" 78.5 78.5
    Sealed 1 12" 113.1 113.1
    Sealed 2 10" 78.5 157.1
    Sealed 1 15" 176.7 176.7
    Sealed 2 12" 113.1 226.2
    Sealed 3 10" 78.5 235.6
    Sealed 1 18" 254.5 254.5
    Sealed 4 10" 78.5 314.2
    Ported 2 10" 78.5 314.2
    Sealed 3 12" 113.1 339.3
    Sealed 2 15" 176.7 353.4
    Sealed 4 12" 113.1 452.4
    Ported 2 12" 113.1 452.4

    Sorry, I can't get the table to look good, but I labeled the column headings so you should be able to figure out what's in each of the 5 columns.

    Food for thought......for sure! Spend a little time with the table, and you'll be surprised at the ways you can get BIG NUMBERS in unexpected ways! [​IMG]



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  20. ChrisM72beast

    ChrisM72beast 1/2 ton status

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    I do understand as far as having no top or door. That does make it tough. As far as the side panels are concerened, I'm going to make my own. My 3 amps are on the drivers side wall in the back. I'm still not sure what material i'll use but the installation will be stealth. It will still get the air it needs to stay cool.
    My point is, if you don't have any security measures(top, door...whatever) your sub or subs are going to be victims eventually. I don't know if you do a lot of wheelin' in water but if you do, you dont want your amp or speakers around the floor of the truck.
    That leads us back to your side area. It's high enough to stay away form most water. Your equipment can be hidden from theft and it leaves versitilty in your installation. You can put a tweeter in your front door(high). Maybe a 6.5" in the door(midlevel). Only problem with that is the depth of the magnet to the window and the visibility could cause a problem.
    One other option is to have a premade sub-box that you can either make portible(take it out at home when you park) or make it bolted to the tub itself. I don't know if thats the answer but it might work. With that a motion sensor alarm would do the trick if anybody tried to reach in.
    I know I sound like I'm rambling but take all the factors in consideration before plunking down big bucks for system.
    1. Security
    2. Ease or difficulty of installation
    3. Stealth(which is basically security
    4. Elements. Will water or other weather harm my system.
    5. Sound quality. If these speakers are located wherever, how will it sound.
    6. Money. This is obvious.

    Hope my babbling helps.

    Chris M

    P.S. I'll hopefully have pictures of my install after my truck gets out of the upholstery shop next Tuesday. I also got a fast-trac softop in white. Peace.

    &lt;a target=&amp;quot;_blank&amp;quot; href=http://www.geocities.com/chrism72beast/beastpage.html&gt;http://www.geocities.com/chrism72beast/beastpage.html&lt;/a&gt;<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by ChrisM72beast on 01/25/02 12:16 PM.</FONT></P>
     

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