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system with the top down

Discussion in 'Audio' started by yellowk5, Dec 24, 2002.

  1. yellowk5

    yellowk5 Registered Member

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    i have an 89 and i just installed a system. i have 4-6x9's and 2-4x10's, a pioneer premier head unit and it all sounds great. my favorite part is the bass though. i have a kicker s12l7 in a ported box with an 800 watt rms amp. it hits hard and deep. i just ordered a soft top and was wondering what systems sound like with a soft top compared to the hard top and most importantly when the top is off. any info is greatly appreciated. thanx fellas!
     
  2. BiggerRigger

    BiggerRigger Registered Member

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    well I cannot say about the softtop cause I dont have one but with the top off you will notice a drop in your bass.
    here's why
    1. speaker placement
    2. cabin gain "goes with #1"
    3. box tuning fq "goes with #1&2"
    If your box is tuned for super low bass you will notice a bigger decrease in overall spl over a box that is tuned to a higher fq.
    Placement of the box in relation of the listeners will have an efect on the overall spl that you will hear/feel
    Cabin gain will decrease as you remove your top because the preassure wave from the speaker will want to find its way to the least resistence thus into the open air and as a result you will not have the "gain" that you would have if that preasure wave has to make its way from the back of the rig to the listener trough the box "your rig with its top on"
    Hope this helps. If you have any more ?'s just ask and I will be glad to help
    Aaron
     
  3. yellowk5

    yellowk5 Registered Member

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    what will the bass be like with the top off? will it be non existent or will it still be loud, just not AS loud? also, do u have any recommendations on what to do to increase the sound levels of the bass when i take the top off? thanx again
     
  4. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Where is the subwoofer currently installed? Given that you're not dealing with a FULL convertible, there is a better chance that the bass will be acceptable.

    As was already mentioned...if the speaker is pointing into the enclosed area you will preserve it better than if it's simply firing straight up into open space (the great wide open)...

    There is no doubt that you will lose output from the sub with the rear topper removed....the question is how will you personally feel about the sound. That's a tough one for anyone else to answer here....but keep in mind, there are usually ways to increase the output of the amp that drives the subwoofer to "blend" it more correctly with the rest of the speakers.

    I have a '72 K5 (full convertible) and every winter when the hardtop goes back on, I have to adjust my subwoofer amps DOWN because the bass becomes overpowering. I designed it to sound "correct" with the top off, so when winter comes....it's a simple matter of turning down the two amps that drive the subs, and everything sounds good again.

    I guess my final suggestion is to pull the hardtop off and drive around....see what it sounds like. Remember, adding a fabric top won't be any different sonically from having NO top at all....the sound will not be contained by a canvas top, so that "experiment" should tell you a lot about what to expect.

    Hope that gives you a few ideas...! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  5. yellowk5

    yellowk5 Registered Member

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    i looked at your pics and i like your setup. very nice custom work!!! i was gonna go with 2-12W3's but i only wanted to have one sub so i got the kicker cuz of its handling power. I have it in a custom ported box facing the rear gate, but i would imagine turning it to face the cabin would help with the top off??? i was wondering what kind of amps u have powering them and how they sounded with the top off?
     
  6. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I would suggest turning the box around just to see if you can tell any differences. Sometimes "playing the port" into some adjacent sheetmetal will help to couple the bass more.... it's all going to come down to experimentation.

    As far as my setup, the subs are 10W3's and each one is driven by a dedicated a/d/s PQ20 amp (Old school! 200 x 1 bridged)...honestly, it's plenty of power for a ported 10 and they crank just fine with the top off....with the top on, they are deafening and rediculous until I turn the amps down.

    I don't get overly impressed by power ratings on amps....so much of that is pure B.S. anyway. A clean, well designed amp is where it's at.....you don't need to look for 1000 watt amps to get lots of sound in a K5.

    My personal philosophy is to really power the upper bass correctly (that's my door speakers, which also receive 200W EACH!!!)...that adds a sense of immediacy to music that NO subwoofer will ever accomplish. (This is another topic all by itself, and one that I've belabored many times already on this forum. I'll leave it to your own "search" to read those comments if you're interested! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
     
  7. BiggerRigger

    BiggerRigger Registered Member

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    Here, Here, Could not of said it better myself.
    One more thing that you mite look into is placeing the subs in custom boxes under the front seats or in the front floorboards or a combo of both. This is of course you have a welder or know someone that does. You weld up a set of boxes that mounts under the floorboards or seats in the front and place your speakers in them under the cab of the truck. I did this in a pontiac fiero that I had and won many s.p.l. and soundQ contest that I entered with this setup. As you know there is no room for any thing in the fiero and I mannaged to fit 2 eclipse 8812.4's under that car with no problems and it did great. But just like any sub box you have to brace the crap out of it to make it sound good even more with a steal box as if not done right it can make alot of noise. What I did was welded up my boxes so they fit as tight to the floor with the old under coating in place then clean all of the old under coating off with a wire wheel. Go get some high quality under coating (I got mine from the GM dealer)and spay it into place then take the box that you just made and place a piece of plywood the same size as the box under the box and use a car jack to hold this into place till the undercoat dries enuff to take the jack away. After and only after it has dried can you clean some spots to make your welds to hold the box inplace as the undercoating itself will not hold. After you have the box inplace finish off the outside of the box with more undercoat to protect and sound deaden the whole thing. Now on to the inside remove the carpet and anything that is in the way and measure 10 times before you cut anything. You are going to cut through the original floorboard,new undercoating,and top of the new box that you just welded in to place your subs into the box. But before you do take some of the undercoating and spray the inside of the box to make it sonicly dead and place your sub inside. I welded bolts from the underside before I sprayed the inside so I could bold the sub down.
    Before you do any of this make sure that your box is built for the sub (I added 10% to the overall volume of the boxes to take into consideration for the added braceing and added undercoating) and make a mock up of the box to see if it will sound the way you want it to before you mount anything into place. The box will sound much better once you get it mounted and coulped to the cab but a mock up will give you a good idea on what it will sound like. I will see if my wife still has the pics of my fiero so you can see what it looks like after its all done. Good luck and if you have any ?'s just ask.
    Aaron
     

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