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TBI troubleshooting, ***with winaldl logs.***

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by gonger, Mar 25, 2006.

  1. gonger

    gonger Registered Member

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    Iam trouble shooting a few tbi problems, and have attached a log.

    One problem is high idle, like arround 1000 rpm and Up, so when I look at the data below I see that it looks like its runing in cold mode, when coolant temp is at 190 idle drops, is this right? tps values vary at different Idle setting to but I think the temp problem is to blame.

    I also have alot of carbon come out the exhaust, covers backwindow, could this be related to the egr error thats flagged? Im not sure what the egr problem could be caused from, I notice that at the TBI (89 sub) the vaccume port leading to egr controler has no vaccume at the TBI, when I check the same port on my (90 k5) it has vaccume. So is there supposed to be vaccume going to egr controller?

    Not sure what DRP counts are from?

    Thanks for your help all,:bow: :bow:

    **Edit
    sorry, tabulated logs didnt past into thread well.

    time *|IAC*|temp vss*| MAP| RPM |TPS |INT|O2 **BATT Knok BLM RICH
    843.7 |58*| 188.6 0 **|30.3 |1100 |3.1 |131 |0.694 13.5 1 **128 60 1
    844.9 |58*| 188.6 0 **|30.3 |1075 |3.1 |131 |0.411 13.5 1 **128 67 0
    846.1 |58*| 188.6 0 **|30.3 |1100 |3.1 |130 |0.513 13.5 1 **128 69 1

    900.8 |32*| 190 |0 **|38.4 |575 **|1.2 |129 |0.499 13.4 1 **135 152 1
    901.9 |31*| 190 |0 **|37.7 |550 **|1.2 |129 |0.747 13.4 1 **135 161 0
    903.1 |31*| 190 |0 **|38.8 |550 **|1.2 |129 |0.526 13.4 1 **135 168 1
    904.3 |31*| 190 |0 **|37.7 |550 **|1.2 |129 |0.743 13.4 1 **135 175 0
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2006
  2. chvymudin3388

    chvymudin3388 1/2 ton status

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    mine basicaly does the same thing yours does. If you get into it, mainly from a dead still, it puffs black smoke like its a diesel. In the morning the motor surges if its kinda cold out, and when the computer finaly rev's it up and corrects it, stays reved up till you kill it and restart it, or sometimes itll stay revved up all day
     
  3. Wingnutt

    Wingnutt 1/2 ton status

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    Is the engine stock or modified in ANY way? Also what it the mileage on the engine (and TBI)? And how old is the O2 sensor?

    In the second part of your datalog, it looks like you are decelerating (based on TPS%, low idle, and IAC counts), is this correct; or is the idle surging?

    If the entire datalog is at idle, you have something telling the ECM to seriously reduce the IAC counts (this is because something is telling the ECM that you are running lean and it is trying to correct it). In the first part of your datalog, you BLMs are dead on 128 (14.7 AFR), but you are way rich in the second part.
     
  4. gonger

    gonger Registered Member

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    I just accuired the sub, rebuilt 350(1000 miles maybe), everything else old stock.

    Both measurments were at IDLE, foot off gas, and tps sensor has 3.1 in one sample and 1.2 on other, does this indicat TPS sensor problem?

    when temp reached 190 it triggered idle cool flag and droped idle down, blms went up? is it enriching fuel to manage engine temps? I'have a new thermostat just need to put it in, its a 195.

    I did have some concerns about o2 sensor, it had been moved down from the stock manifold down the tube acouple feet, right before cat, think I'll replace it and put it back in stock manifold.
     
  5. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    Your TPS should be at .50v at idle. It looks to me the TPS is bad. 3.1v is what you would read at about 3/4 throttle. No wonder you are running rich.
    Running rich prolly took out your O2 sensor also so plan on replacing it too.
    Yes you should have vaccum at the egr port on the TBI. You may need to pull the TB and clean it out
     
  6. southernspeed

    southernspeed 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    You need a heated (3 wire) O2 sensor that far from the head. That could well be your problem.
     
  7. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    One question? Were you in open or closed loop when you took that snapshot?
     
  8. Wingnutt

    Wingnutt 1/2 ton status

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    "I did have some concerns about o2 sensor, it had been moved down from the stock manifold down the tube acouple feet, right before cat, think I'll replace it and put it back in stock manifold."

    I do think could be the problem! You can either move it back to the stock location, or go with a 3 wire heated O2 sensor. Also that TPS needs looked at too. It should be steady at .52-.58v at idle.

    Take care of those two things and I'll bet she'll run a LOT better.:rolleyes:
     
  9. southernspeed

    southernspeed 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I'd say looking at the BLMs in the first batch it was open then when it closed and started getting sensor inputs his BLMs went right up.
     
  10. gonger

    gonger Registered Member

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    it was closed loop in both samples
     
  11. gonger

    gonger Registered Member

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    I partial remember reading a tread about setting IAC idle by putting a paper clip in obd1 port, then disconnecting IAC, and adjust Idle. Anyone familiar with that process?
     
  12. southernspeed

    southernspeed 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    It was covered just recently. A search should throw it up but I don't think that's your problem.
     
  13. gonger

    gonger Registered Member

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    further research would indicate that the TPS value in the winaldl log isnt a voltage value, Im not sure how calculate that number from the voltage, but when I monitor the live sensor output it shows a voltage arround 0.5 +/- .2.
     
  14. Creek

    Creek Registered Member

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    The tps is not showing 1.2 volts and 3.1 volts it is 1.2% and 3.1% respectively of full throttle based on how you configured WinALDL. Still makes me wonder how it varies by nearly 2% when the throttle hasn't moved, or had you blipped the throttle? If not you may want to check the connector. The 135 in the BLM means it was lean and the ECU is adding fuel. BLMs below 128 indicates rich and above 128 indicates lean. It was closed loop in both cases but in the first shot you had 9 crossing counts in 2.4 seconds and the second shot shows 23 crossing counts in 3.5 seconds. The 160 baud interface updates about every 1.2 seconds and typically you will see 30 to 40 crossing counts each update when in closed loop. Definitely put the O2 sensor back in the manifold or put a heated one in. That would be my first move and then do some more logging.

    David
     
  15. gonger

    gonger Registered Member

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    yes, I did get to change my thermostat changed, but i havnt got to log it yet, Ill do o2 next, will probably have to wait a few days before i'll have a chance... thanks for the tips all, I will update after i have a chance to get some garage time in....
     
  16. gonger

    gonger Registered Member

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    Hey thanks for help all, I think I got some issues fixed. I replaced O2 and put it back in stock manifold. then set minimum air and tps per this tech article (www.s-series.org/sections-article71-p1.html). IAC was leting too much air in, then adjusted TPS, that thing is really sensitive to adjustment, just loosend bolt and moved it arround alittle and got it about .55, I may try and tweak that in alittle tighter. So now my Winaldl data looks alot better. blms are better, Idle at 600 in gear.

    So One last question., My temps are still running about 180 in winaldl,210 on dash/just replaced thermostat with 195. So I think the ecm is looking for about 190, and how would this temp difference effect ecm, is 180 warm enough for ecm?
     
  17. Creek

    Creek Registered Member

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    The temperature signal for the ecm comes from a sensor in the front of the manifold near the thermostat housing and the signal for the gauge comes from a sensor in the left cylinder head. The sensor for the ecm is the more accurate of the two. The ecm uses the temp sensor input for startup fuel ratios, idle rpm, acceleration enrichment, burst knock retard and when to go closed loop. I'm sure both of your vehicles have a 1227747 ecm. Your 90 K5 would use the ASDU binary but I'm not sure what the 89 burb has. The ASDU binary goes closed loop after 35C (95F) degrees and from that point on uses temp. only for idle rpm and acceleration enrichment. The engine will make more power at 195F than 180F but only because you are losing less combustion heat to the cooling system.

    David
     

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