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The Da Vinci Code

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Zeus33rd, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    Has anyone else read this book? Started it yesterday, finished it today. Best book I've read in a looooong time.

    Definatley a thought provoker.
     
  2. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Pretty good book, a lot of the "history" in it is questionable at best, fabricated at worst, but it is a good read.
    The prequel "Angels and Demons" was pretty good too.
     
  3. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    I wondered about the historical accuracy of some of the info in the book too. Just a story though, supposed to be entertaining. I would imagine the actual history would be quite a bit more boring. :)
     
  4. Ruthven13

    Ruthven13 1/2 ton status

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    From what I have found, alot of the historical information is true. Places, names, and past events. It is a pretty seamless compilation of fact and fiction. Every now and then the History Channel runs "Beyond the DiVinci Code". Definately worth watching. I just find it funny how some fundimentalists are in an outrage over this book. It is fiction, based on historical data. They just don't seem to get it. Oh yes, "Angels and Demons" is a must read as well....
     
  5. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Very good way to phrase that, the places and names do appear to be accurate and the fiction is so seamlessly integrated it can be hard to differentiate it from the facts used. The Discovery channel specials are very good to help filter it out, there is also I good book (I can't think of the name) that someone gave me that goes through all of the historical references.
     
  6. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    eh, I just finished it on like Saturday. It was decent. As a person who likes to read and learn about Naturism, I enjoyed parts of it, but it seemed to tie together things that sort of shouldn't be. Like Naturism and Christianity. Raises some interesting points. I read around the net about it a little, mostly found christian groups speaking out against it. I found it funny that they picked somethings to say were completely false but completely ignored things like, the dead sea scrolls and some other things I can't remember(meant to mark pages, just forgot).
     
  7. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    Let me preface the below with the assumption that by "naturism" you are referring more to the Druid, Wiccan, and Pagan beliefs rather than the modern term which refers to those who prefer to be nude in public. If you did mean public nudity (personal favorite of mine...) then I apologize and disregard this unless you find it interesting anyways...

    Just curious what you found to be a problem with tying them in together. History is replete with examples of Christian sects adopting Pagan, Wiccan, and Druid customs. The Christmas tree is a prime example. In summation, there is evidence that this spawned from the Pagan yule log and winter solistice celebration ( http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm ). The mere celebration of Christmas in December has been viewed as adapting a pure Christian holiday, the birth of Christ, from its historical time frame of June to the winter solstice time frame in order to more easily convince Pagans, Druids, and many other religions with significant December celebrations to accept the Christian tradition.

    If you do a search online on the influences of paganism on Christianity, you will find a plethora of quite interesting information. It also isn't just Paganism that has influenced Christian sects over the years. When I lived in the Republic of China, I witnessed the blending of religions first hand. The Catholic religion was pretty strict in their "conversion" of Buddhist and Taoist faiths. However, I saw many Christian churches that allowed converts to adapt Christian symbols and rituals to their previous Buddhist lifestyles. For example, in most Buddhist homes you have a small shrine that is dedicated to the Buddhist gods of your choice. Small idols, statues, candles, lights, and incense sticks are placed on a shelf dedicated only to the shrine somewhere in the home. Certain rituals are practiced to honor deceased relatives, the family, and other religious acts. Several times I came across these shrines where the traditional Buddhist statues had been replaced with statues of the Virgin Mary, Jesus, and other Christian symbols. Red lights were replaced with white candles in Christian motif glasses. Incense was still burned ritualistically and the shrine was maintained in Buddhist tradition but with Christian symbols. The people attended church every sunday but also would celebrate all the Buddhist holidays in the traditional fashion.

    If this is taking place in the modern era, I can only imagine the transformation of various religious throughout history. There is also much research that has been done on the changes made within the major Christian churches themselves. As a history fan, I've enjoyed reading about the influence of various traditions, politics, and power struggles on the major world religions over the decades. No offense to the staunch believers here, but if any Christian really did some serious homework into the origins of their beliefs, they would be rather amazed at what they would find.
     
  8. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Very accurate, I can't think of any links in the book between Christianity and pagan religions that were not only factual but well documented. Even all of our Christian holidays are based on pagan ones, whether it be Samhain, both solstices, harvest festivals etc.
     
  9. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    I loved it. Most people I have talked to also have read it in just a few days, so that gives you an idea of its quality, its great! I found it hilarious that the catholic church "banned" it, it being a fiction novel and all.
     
  10. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I'm well aware of that and know that these ties are accurate. I can't even say what I really meant at this point so I retract my statements. I need to reread the book and mark phrases and pages.

    You guys raised another point that none of the articles I have found have touched on.

    What is the Christian explanation for the borrowing of others holidays, beliefs, stories and such? I mean there were a bunch of things you guys listed and that were noted in the book(even as far as the idea of being killed, put in a cave, and ressurected so many days later). My guess is it is just the enlightened Christians who realize this is the truth, you know the people who realize the bible isn't a 100% factual account of a man's life but rather a gathering of morals and stories towards a better life. Sorry if I'm off base in my comments here, not trying to ruffle any feathers, its just one of the things that was conspicuoslly absent from the christian articles I read.

    And Bubba, yes I meant the Pagan, Wiccan, Celtic, etc. Thought Nudism has its place.... you know when its a hot chick and.... well you know what I mean.
     
  11. surpip

    surpip 1 ton status

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    Yes very good book, i am currently reading "Angles and Demons" now and it is pretty dang good to
    both of the ones i bought were the ones with pictures, it really helps to see the stuff they are talking about in the book
     
  12. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    Bubba? Come on, just because I share his love of donuts........... As for Christians trying to explain some of their history, it depends on which "Christians" you talk to. Some I've had conversations with go absolutely ballistic when you suggest that the bible is anything other than the exact word of God in print. Others recognize that it has been translated, by men, many times over and each time political and other influences entered into some of the interpretations. Some Christians either consciously, or unconsciously, stick their heads in the sand and don't want to hear anything that might be contradictory to whatever brand of church they attend. Others keep an open mind and are intellectual sponges. As in all things in life, it isn't the label that has meaning, it is each individual person and their actions/integrity/personality that counts......

    Here is another little tidbit that gets overlooked. There are some churches that use certain biblical passages as a cornerstone for their beliefs. One of those is the description of what transpired as Christ hung on the cross during the crucifixion. In short, one of people on one side of Christ was giving him a bad time. The other guy on the other side pipes up and tells him to lay off. In many translations of the bible Christ tells the good guy that "today you will be with me in heaven". Well, some see this passage as confirmation that last minute absolution can be obtained, not by a lifetime of good works, but by simply a few phrases at the opportune moment. However, a reading of the original biblical text in hebrew or greek reveals that what was originally recorded was that Christ said "today you will be with me in paradise".

    An understanding of biblical history, jewish traditions, and middle east culture reveals that the concept of paradise and the concept of heaven are two different things. Paradise has an entirely different meaning to those folks, in that time frame, than it does today in modern western culture. This is just one example of how some religions will hang their hats on certain biblical passages, usually the King James version, of the bible but have no knowledge of the true original transcription, the context in which it was made or said, and its applicability to modern times.
     
  13. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Most (traditional) Christians will not reply to these questions and most have no idea of the relationship between the church and pagan traditions. As a matter of fact, I was raised in a very fundamentalist household (Pentecostal Holiness) and was taught that Catholics were in fact pagan and it was even implied that they were in service of Satan (oh my!) I remember one of the comics I had as a kid (I wasn't allowed to read regular Batman and X-Men type comics, they are of Satan as well you know :blush: ) had a whole segment on the Pope and it showed the Pope on his throne and the Devil was behind him whispering in his ear giving him instructions.

    I was taught that Druids worshipped Satan (as you well know, there is no Satan in animistic or pagan religions) and sacrificed humans to him.

    The majority of practicing Christians have no idea of these things mainly because it is not taught in school or at church. Most reasonable people can learn from this information and benefit from it, some are simply too close-minded. I still have family members who will not let their kids play with dinosaur toys or watch movies with them because the existence of dinosaurs threatens what they think they know about creation, and any admission that any evolution occured is impossible.

    Hell, I got a "D" in 10th grade science because I wrote a paper trying to reconcile evolution and creation as not being mutually exclusive.

    Some people just live their lives with blinders on (and it's not only Christians or religious folks)
     
  14. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    I just started Angles and Demons last night. So far so good. I love reading stuff about the Free Masons, Knights Templar, the different theories on The Holy Grail, Illuminati etc etc... I think Catholicism is rediculous, so it fits. :)
     
  15. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I was raised Catholic, my grandfather was a "Knight of Columbus" and I think its all rediculous. But thats me. My parents have left the Catholic church as well. I have often said I would raise my children(if I ever have any), as christians. Not for the belief system but rather for the good human being it teaches you to be. But then, good parenting will do the samething.
     
  16. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    Hi! Welcome to 2003!:D
     
  17. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    yeah yeah yeah, I myself just happened to pick up a copy of it last week, see someone is trying to tell us something, KJ and myself both getting it and commenting at the sametime :D\

    Not that anyone gives a **** about what I or he really thinks. One can dream I guess.
     
  18. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    The most recent chuckle I got was from a friend of the missus who said she wouldn't let her kids watch Harry Potter because it was about satanism. I asked her what she knew about pagans, wiccans, and druids and she of course responded that they were all devil worshipers ergo, Harry Potter is about satanic cults and their practices. I don't know what is worse sometimes, ignorance or bigotry. I can certainly respect someone who does their homework and then formulates an opinion, even if I disagree, if it is based upon a sincere desire to understand the subject matter first. But, sheeple who blindly believe what some self proclaimed leader teaches them without doing some kind of due diligence investigation I have little patience with.
     
  19. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I'd really bet on if you walked into most churches in america, and asked people how many had really, truly read the bible, a good number of them would have never opened it beyond guided readings in church.
     
  20. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Great point, my Dad thinks that Harry Potter is "of the Devil" and an attempt to subvert our youth into Satanic witchcraft. My Mom is an English Prof. (divorced from him for 27 years) and has read all of them and thinks he's nuts.
     

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