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The Last Debate

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by firefighter184, Oct 14, 2004.

  1. firefighter184

    firefighter184 1/2 ton status

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    I don't care who the polls say won it. It was reassuring and inspiring to hear GW talk about his faith in such an honest and open manner. I know that faith has gotten me thru some tough times, and I like the idea of a president who's faith does the same for him. Kerry is what I call a "convenient Catholic". He is religious when it matters politically. What kind of Catholic is Pro-choice? Guy is a walking paradox. GW in 04.
     
  2. mtn. burb

    mtn. burb 1/2 ton status

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    I agree with you friend. I think that perhaps the difference in the men spiritually is that GW has had a supernatural , or spiritual, revelation of the reality of God. Perhaps Mr. Kerry has a perception of God thru Catholicism, but has not had a born again experience. Until a man yields himself completely to God, he will have a perception of the spiritual world, but not function in the confidence of it's eternality and reality until he completely surrenders to God. When he does, *wham*!, you are changed and know it is real.
     
  3. firefighter184

    firefighter184 1/2 ton status

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    When Kerry talks about his "faith", it is like he's reading from a script. No passions, just words. When President Bush talks about his faith, he kind of lights up, just seems a little different. No question that George Bush is a very spiritual man. I just don't buy Kerry's "faith.

    I personally want a man in office who IS spiritual, and relys upon his faith for strength. A man of faith is a man of principles and morals. Why wouldn't you want that guy in the Oval Office? President Bush has a great sense of conviction and direction, and much of that comes from his strong connection to God. Kerry's priciples and convictions are much more politically changeable.

    I like your sig! Pray for America. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  4. mtn. burb

    mtn. burb 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks. That's makes a least two gun-totin, flag-wavin Rednecks who are praying for America!



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  5. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    It would be three if I could carry legally...

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    I like how GW's not afraid to show his faith, too. That man's got an admirable concept of right and wrong.
     
  6. djsblaze

    djsblaze 1/2 ton status

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    Well, unlike you guys Im not much for mixing religion and politics, though I respect both men's right to express their faith. I just dont want either to legislate their faith as W is prone to doing. Im more or less voting for Kerry because of diplomacy issues, but, I gotta say W did his best job in the debates last night. He looked comfortable for a change. I think it is safe to say W beat Kerry last night, for what its worth. /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  7. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    just dont want either to legislate their faith as W is prone to doing

    [/ QUOTE ]

    When /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  8. djsblaze

    djsblaze 1/2 ton status

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    Abortion and stem cell research to begin with...
     
  9. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    I don't want to get into a drawn out debate about this, but what I've learned since both those issues became issues is this:

    The Partial Birth abortion ban (which is not a medical term) legislation stops a barbaric form of abortion. Historically, there has never been an incident where a carrying a baby or giving birth would kill the mother, and aborting the baby would garauntee her survival. In cases that people would like to use as examples, the abortion is actually a side effect of treatment for something else. Like cancer that requires removal of a uterus. By just the nature of the ailment, if the mother's pregnant when it's discovered and the uterus needs to be removed, the baby will not be able to survive, and in such case, both the baby and the mother will die if left untreated. Other than that, there's never been a situation where having a baby would kill the mother, and the baby must be aborted for the mothers survival. Modern medical technology advances have made it even less excusable to abort for health reasons. I'm rusty on the exact numbers, but at something like 22 weeks (almost 6 months), a baby can survive outside the womb with modern medical technology, and there have been cases of even earlier premies surviving.

    On stem cell research, I'm rusty on the numbers again... But there are at least 56 existing frozen embryo's that can provide stem cells for research, which have not been legislated. An important point to note about stem cells is that they can be duplicated indefinately. There is no need for a constant influx of new embryo's to supply more stem cells, they can be copied from existing emrbyo's and researched infinitely.
    Also, from what I understand about GW's stem cell approach, he's provided more federal funding for it than any other president.
     
  10. 84k5

    84k5 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I don't care who the polls say won it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Bush took a one point lead in the polls. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  11. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Stop looking at the polls, look at the electoral votes:

    http://www.electoral-vote.com/

    Kerry: 228 Bush: 284

    That's what counts. There is also a breakdown (strong for Bush, weak for Bush, tied, Strong for Kerry, weak for Kerry etc.) on that site that's pretty interesting.
     
  12. djsblaze

    djsblaze 1/2 ton status

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    New Yorkin, sorry it took me so long to get back...meeting...I hate it when work interferes with my CK5 time. Well, you've got more facts and figures regarding abortion and stem-cells than I do. Im not speaking in technical terms, but rather ideological ones. Bush is obviously against abortion, and would not answer the question of whether or not he would support overturning Roe v. Wade; which makes me think he would. Also, he was pretty dicey on his answer about appointing a S.C. Justice who would do the same. He just said "no litmus test" and skirted the issue. Im thinking his goal is to do away with abortion. Regarding stem cells, I have heard arguments both ways about the existing lines. The republicans say we can research indefinitely on the existing lines. Democrats say we cant, because there are only 20 or so lines that are not contaminated. (Or is it there are 20 of the 56 contaminated?). Both sides have their story, and Im not a genetic researcher, so I dont know. I only know that many people claim Bush could do more to foster such research, but chooses not to in order to foster his "culture of life." At least according to Christoper Reeve (bummer) and Nancy Reagan and Ron, Jr. Just my .02 cents. I respect the President's religious beliefs, but again, I dont know that I want his beliefs determining what types of constitutional rights I have (or my wife or daughter). /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  13. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I hate it when work interferes with my CK5 time.

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    /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    Me too....


    I understand what you're saying. I just went a little deeper under the surface on those issues recently, but I'm not at all an expert... /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
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    edit: unintentionally sounded sarcastic...
     
  14. djsblaze

    djsblaze 1/2 ton status

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    Its all good. Im just glad the good people here on CK5 have political opinions. I'm shocked at the number of people I know who CANT MAKE UP THEIR MINDS and have decided not to vote at all. That kills me. Right or wrong, get out and exercise the right to vote... /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  15. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    I believe that even if he wanted to, he could never turn over Roe vs. Wade unless a large majority of the country backed him, which unfortunately is not the case. I dont know much about the stem cell issue, so I will stay out of that one.
     
  16. firefighter184

    firefighter184 1/2 ton status

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    The President cannot overturn Roe v Wade. Only the Supreme Court can. That is not to say that GW won't appoint a judge or two that wouldn't lean that way, but GW won't be overturning anything. The President also won't be legislating anything because that is a job for the House and the Senate.
     
  17. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Agreed /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  18. djsblaze

    djsblaze 1/2 ton status

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    Firefighter, you have a firm grip on the obvious. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif I realize Bush, himself, cannot overturn a S.C. decision. I think your comment about who he might appoint given the chance is more in line with my comments. As far as legislating, the President does play a pretty big role, considering he can veto any legislation being brought before him, especially with a republican majority in the house and senate. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  19. djsblaze

    djsblaze 1/2 ton status

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    Firefighter, my bad, I thought your last comment was directed at me, but clearly it was not. My apologies for the sarcasm...
     
  20. firefighter184

    firefighter184 1/2 ton status

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    It's all good brother /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     

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