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The new eclipse...(new to me)

Discussion in 'Audio' started by xchevyxtc, Aug 12, 2001.

  1. xchevyxtc

    xchevyxtc Registered Member

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    Yesterday i was at my local stereo shop and saw an eclipse 8051...that was a big mistake because i fell in love with it...now it says it has 8v preamp outputs...and the 8061 says it has balanced output of 16v...i thought that i have 5v with my 5443 but i am not sure anyway...whats the difference? and apparantly i am understanding that this will give you more power???? anyway maybe someone could explain that to me in laymans terms..thanks a lot...xchevyxtc
     
  2. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

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    From what i know it doesnt give you more power output.. it just gives the amp a much cleaner signal to use.. i might be wrong on this one but im sure others will be able to give you a better answer then i can..

    Prembird
    [​IMG] <font color=blue> If it aint</font color=blue><font color=red> LOUD </font color=red><font color=blue> Then turn it </font color=blue><font color=red> UP</font color=red> [​IMG]
     
  3. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Well I can't help but jump in here.....I was looking at those Eclipse's not so long ago....one has the 16V output and the model just below that has the 8V. In my humble opinion, the 8V is probably fine. The 16V is using what's known as a "differential" signal that almost no other equipment supports. In fact, if your keep looking at the Eclipse website, you'll find the "adapter" that allows you to convert the 16V differential back to the 8V single-ended output that most other equipment wants!!!!

    The trick they are using (if my electronics theory is correct) is to use not just 0 and +8v, but also -8V. The resulting "total voltage" can vary from +8V to -8V for a total of 16V useable signal output!!!!

    This is not unlike the "high-end" home audio stuff with standard vs. balanced outputs (XLR).... Where the connector has a "microphone" looking jack with 3 leads in it....(+V, GND, -V)

    Personally, save the money and get the 8V model.....unless your electrical system is SOOOOO noisy that you need all the S/N ratio you can get to avoid the dreaded "alternator whine".....

    That's how I was planning on going (Eclipse 8V) until Ryan (73K5) made me an offer I coudn't refuse on a "classic" Alpine 4V unit! [​IMG]

    ......are we having fun yet? [​IMG]


    -Greg72
     
  4. xchevyxtc

    xchevyxtc Registered Member

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    thanks for the responses...i love learning about these cool things..thanks again...xchevyxtc
     
  5. '73 K5

    '73 K5 1/2 ton status

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    OK, my turn I guess.
    You know how you can get a home audio amp and receiver and stuff and hook it up and use it. There are never any gains to adjust on it. Thats because all the home equipment is made to use the same exact type/amount of power...its regulated if you will.
    Car stereo stuff on the other hand is the opposite. The output voltage through the RCA cables from decks are all different. Thats why you must adjust the gains on an amp to compensate for the differences. With that said, I can now explain why a 5 volt deck is better than a 1.8 volt for example. Power and sound quality are the 2 major benefits. If you hook the 1.8 volt deck up to your amp, lets pretend its gained correctly with the pots turned up half way. If you swapped out to a 5 volt deck you would then be able to turn the gains down accordingly on the amp. The reason this is good is because the lower the gain level on the amp, usually the lower distortion...thats the sound quality part. The power part is simple. The more power you push through those RCA's, the more power the amp gets to work with. From experience, the biggest benefit I've seen is the increase in sound quality over just plain being louder.
    Its kinda hard to explain...hope that wasn't too confusing. [​IMG]

    '73 K5
    Chevy good...Ford bad
     
  6. xchevyxtc

    xchevyxtc Registered Member

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    thanks for the info 73k5...
     
  7. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Ryan's got it right again! [​IMG]

    The key to good sound is starting off with a high-quality head unit. That means high output voltage (4V or higher, and low source impedence (probably less than 100 ohms).

    The secret is in preserving signal-to-noise ratio in your system. Every component has a certain "noise floor" and will add to the total noise of the system. You've no doubt listened to stereos where the song ends....and there is audible 'hiss' before the next song starts. What you are listening to is that noise floor I just described.

    The perceived LOUDNESS of a system is the result of getting as much signal as possible, while minimizing the noise floor. If you have a noisy system, you will waste a lot of the system's potential just trying to 'drown out' the hiss by turning up the volume. Many of the details of the music will be lost in that noise too....

    A powerful head unit, will give you a great S/N ratio to start with and will allow you to avoid 'induced noise' from other electrical components in your car. As you begin 'setting the levels' on your car stereo equipment you will notice that you can achieve the "full undistorted output" without increasing the input sensitivity (or GAIN) on the next component in the signal chain. The less you need to turn these UP, the lower the noise floor will be.....and the more you will hear all those great subtle details in the music!!!! Oh, and by the way.....the system will ROCK too!!!!! [​IMG]

    By the way, finding an installer (or friend) who understands this concept will allow you to get much better sound than you ever thought possible. You can always get better sound with modest equipment installed using correct principles, than you can with the most expensive equipment installed by someone who doesn't know how to get it's maximum potential!!!

    -Greg72
     
  8. Stoopalini

    Stoopalini 1/2 ton status

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    These guys definitely hit it right on with the pre-out voltage: Higher is better because you can lower your amp's gain which reduces distortion and heat.

    The balanced output is usually 3 signal lines. A positive sine wav, a negative sine wav, and a straight signal for reference.
    When the signal is received at the other end, the component compares the + signal with the - signal using the flat signal as a reference. Both of these signals should be exact, except 180' out. If there was any noise introduced into either signal, there will be a discrepancy in the sine wave and the receiving unit can compensates for it. -- Basically it provides for the ultimate in a clean signal.

    Audio control makes some great EQ's that utilize a balanced signal. Specifically the <a target="_blank" href=http://www.audiocontrol.com/caraudio.htm> Audio Control EQT</a> (30 band mono EQ) uses it. The only reason I can see to have a pair of these would be for SQ competition reasons; or to compensate for interior resonance/cancelations at certain frequencies.

    Thomas.

    -- '84 K5 Blazer --
     

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