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The Portland Legal Sysem********RANT***********

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by mudgition, Apr 29, 2003.

  1. mudgition

    mudgition 1/2 ton status

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    For those of you not familiar with the case. It's on all the news channels so it's BIG time. A high school kid gets all drunk and stoned and does some lsd(source:katu news) then breaks into(felony?) someone's garage. He procides to light some cardboard boxes on fire because he is cold(source:katu news[how do we know that he was cold]). The owner of the house, a 63 year old man with a wife, hears the noise in his garage and gets his gun to investigate.(nothing strange so far). Upon opening the door to his garage and finding an intruder burning stuff in his garage and "acting aggressive"(katu news quote) the man shoots the high schooler. Killing him. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    NOW, the old man is being charged with HOMICIDE! FOR WHAT? Protecting his home?? From an arsonist??? I'm sorry, but I would have done the same thing.

    Man this pi$$e$ me off. /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    What about you. Do you have some info. that makes this O.K.? I only have the news to go on, as far as info. goes.
     
  2. ChevyCaGal

    ChevyCaGal 3/4 ton status

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    It's sad the kid had to die.... but when you seek out trouble, you will find it.... he got what he got, because he did a bunch of crap that was stupid. His parents are to blame as well. WTF were they during all this? The homeowner shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of this idiot kid. Why is it when someone does something wrong, and they get injured or killed, it's not their fault? Our legal system in this country is seriously jacked.... I hope someone wakes up to how stupid this is and realizes the homeowner had every right to do what he did...
     
  3. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Was the kid armed? Pretty hard to claim self defense if you have a gun and the other guy has some burning cardboard...

    Rene
     
  4. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I disagree Steph, he could easily have held the kid for police using the gun as a threat. Where was the need to shoot?

    [ QUOTE ]
    His parents are to balme as well.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I disagree with this as well. Did your parents know everything you did, everywhere you went all the time? I know when I screwed up as a teen it was my own doing and I was held responsible for my own stupidity. That shouldn't include getting shot without a damn good reason though.

    Rene
     
  5. mudgition

    mudgition 1/2 ton status

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    tRustyk5, I understand your point, but I have a hard time understanding a legal system that would press charges agoinst a man that was protecting his home against someone that was "acting aggressive". Regardless if they were burning cardboard on not. If someone is within the area that I count as square footage for my home and acting aggressive towards me in the middle of the night, I will not be asking any questions as to why they think it's O.K. that they should be there.

    It is terrible that the kid had to die. I really belive that. It would have been wonderful if the bullet only went through his kneecap and he walked with a limp for the rest of his life as a reminder not to do drugs; not to break and enter; not to burn someone elses stuff.

    But to send this old man before the court to prove his innocence in a HOMOCIDE! He could get life in prison,

    I think.


    My .02.
     
  6. ChevyCaGal

    ChevyCaGal 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I disagree Steph, he could easily have held the kid for police using the gun as a threat. Where was the need to shoot?

    [ QUOTE ]
    His parents are to balme as well.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I disagree with this as well. Did your parents know everything you did, everywhere you went all the time? I know when I screwed up as a teen it was my own doing and I was held responsible for my own stupidity. That shouldn't include getting shot without a damn good reason though.

    Rene

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My mom knew who I was with, and what I was doing. I knew if I pulled a stunt like this she'd kicked my butt and handed me over to the cops to be dealt with. No having mom save me if I was doing something clearly wrong. I had it told to me all the time to respect others, their property, and myself by not behaving like this and doing something like this.

    This kid was on drugs, drunk, broke and entered and set crap on fire, and it says he acted aggresive..... people on drugs they listed don't act normal, they are crazed. There is a fire going on right by him, so I'm sure taking the time to discover if this kid, who shouldn't have been there to begin with was armed was probably not something easy to do. Like he is gonna be able to stand there with a gun on this kid with his house on fire with him wigged out while the police come, and maybe not even quickly. IMO, he got the kid found trouble he was looking for. Sucks he died, but when you act like an idiot and get nailed for it, you are the one to blame, not the homeowner... bottom line is, if he would have been home where he should have been and not getting high it never would have happened.
     
  7. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    My point is the kid was in the garage, not legal obviously but he did not enter the home and threaten the old man and his wife.

    "Acting aggressive"...I guess we'll never know because the only one left to tell the story is the old man.

    Having the gun with him...fine. I figure the old man panicked and shot the first thing that moved when he entered the garage. If the kid had no weapon the old man would have had plenty of time to ascertain the seriousness of the situation and react accordingly. Stoned kid burning cardboard in my garage...I'll shoot him. Good choice dude.

    He's being charged with homicide because it was. Now it's his turn to face the consequences of his actions.

    Just my opinion. Don't shoot me for it /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Rene
     
  8. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    personally I think if some1 breaks into ur house then they are fair game. In lousiana they have the "shoot the car jacker law"... braking into someones house in the middle of the night when the occupants are sleeping is a hell of a lot more serious than breaking into someones car. AFAIC, the kid got what he deserved. whats more, thanks to good marksmanship he wont be a repeat offender. If that poor old guy hadnt woke up, both those old people may have been burned alive by this drug-crazed psycho arsonist. thank gawd THAT didnt happen...

    j
     
  9. The_Sandman_454

    The_Sandman_454 1/2 ton status

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    IMO The law should proceed that anybody in one's home (including attached garage) or on one's property if they act in a threatening manner, are legitimate targets to engage however necessary to calm down the situation, and in the event that something happens too fast or in this case there's pressing need (to put the fire out in this case) and the intruder won't cooperate in allowing that to happen they should be considered a fair target as well.

    Being drunk, on drugs, young, stupid is no excuse. You *must* take responsibility for what you do. If you're drunk or on drugs and make a choice to do something illegal fine, you deserve to play the hand you've dealt yourself, even if it includes being fatally shot by someone interested in protecting his/her home who didn't want to either let the place burn down or wait long enough to find out if the individual has a weapon.

    IMO any intruder on one's property should be considered hostile. I.E. If somebody has the guts to break into my home when I'm there, especially at night, I will *not* waste any time tryin' to determine how hostile the threat is, I will act to eliminate the threat and figure out what happened later. I will not wait to find out if they have a weapon because I do not want to have to get shot or stabbed myself and then have somebody else in the home who is less able with weapons left to try to neutralize situation. If that is not the law, or how the law reads, then it *needs* to be changed.

    The only way to prevent crime is to make *very* stiff deterrants. And that's one of the methods that can be used. Remember folks, a gun in the hand is worth far more than a cop on the phone...

    I suppose in the case of an intruder on the property I'll see if the police will decide it's important.

    That's just my $0.02. I do not believe one should have to immediately prove threat in a case of home invasion, simply engage the intruder(s) with enough force to end the situation. If you can do it with a threat to use a firearm or other force fine, if not so be it.

    Then again since none of us were there it's hard to say what the exact situation was. I would personally consider somebody under the influence an automatically increased threat. Add in the fire and sure I'd deem personally there is enough going on to take at least some action...
     
  10. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    This is the first I've heard of it. Honestly, none of us was there to see what the kid did after the old man confronted him. Maybe the kid started coming at him yealling " I'm gonna kill you ". Remember, the kid was on dope, and I can tell you from personal experence, people on dope do irrashenal things !!! Everyone can argue pro's and con's, but the reality is, if you didn't see it with yourown eyes, you don't know what really happened.
     
  11. chevyfumes

    chevyfumes Court jester

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    Tresspassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  12. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Tresspassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    The old man saved the taxpayers money with the housing in jail and the trial and probably would of done something stupid once again.

    The kid was infringing on the man's right's to live peacefully within his own home and paid with his life. Harsh lesson, but maybe it will save someone in the future.
     
  13. Redfrog

    Redfrog 1/2 ton status

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    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  14. Don

    Don 1/2 ton status

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    The kid could have been stumbling around down on Burnside Ave. and got hit by a car, what would have happened then? Blame the driver of the car for agrevated assault with a deadly weapon?

    Or, same Ave, he could have been assaulted by a Lady of the evening, and shot by her, would she be to blame?

    The kid was doing wrong, and in My opinion the kid got what he was after, Trouble.
     

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