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The truth about GITMO

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by gjk5, Jun 27, 2005.

  1. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Thought this was a pretty good article:

    http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18572

    "Last week, I was privileged to be part of a Department of Defense trip to the Joint Task Force - Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. I got to see the operations of this “controversial” facility up-close – something particularly important after Sen. Richard Durbin’s comparison of its guard to Nazi stormtroopers and calls of leftists to shut the center down. Our group went to GITMO to check out tales that the military was being too tough on these terrorist detainees. We left convinced that America is being extraordinarily lenient – far too lenient."



    Read the whole thing, it's refreshing to hear some reality about that place.
     
  2. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

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    good article i could never put up with what those guys have to put up with out of those prisoners i'd kill as many as i possibly could untill someone physically stopped me my hat is off to them!!
     
  3. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    yeah, the left wing scum who are comparing our fine men/women in GTMO to the guards in Auschwitz or the Gulags have thrown in their lot with the enemy. Its treasonous... aiding and abetting the enemy at a time of War. The founders would have tar'd and feathered that idiot senator and thrown him out of town.

    j
     
  4. google

    google 1/2 ton status

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    ohh, good idea.... I'm in
     
  5. MarcS

    MarcS 1/2 ton status

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    I have a friend who just came home from GITMO. They are to lenient on those ANIMALS. He said they would save their piss and **** only to call a guard over to the cell and throw it on them. They had to just walk away. They should have beat them like they do when they capture our guys. Kill would be fine with me, thats all these POS understand anyway. They also had to take away their toilet paper because they would braid it together and choke the guards with it.

    What we should do is load them into B-52 s and carpet bomb the Atlantic Ocean with them. Tell the media that we sent them all home.
     
  6. k5james

    k5james 1/2 ton status

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    While it is a fallicy to compare Gitmo to the Gulags it is just as much of a fallacy to call what Durbin said "Treason." People calling it treason are just as guilty as he is of exaggeration.

    I think if you were being held without being charged for anything you'd be effing pissed off yourself. As much as they are trying to paint all of the prisoners with the broad stroke of being terrorists, the simple fact is that a large number of them are people that are being detained for immigration issues ie Visa overstays and the like.

    To me the issue isn't the treatment they are getting there but why are they even there in the first place. Either charge them and put them on trial or cut them loose.

    On the other hand, then Haliburton wouldn't be able to build a nice new $30Mil detention center. :ignore:
     
  7. Cricket

    Cricket 3/4 ton status

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    Now that was funny. :rotfl:
     
  8. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    :confused: anybody who has been in the service knows darn well that any visitors are NOT going to see the normal daily routine. Any such visits/tours are announced well in advance and a serious meeting was held for all personnel stationed there. I am sure they were advised re any "incidents" that were witnessed by outsiders. Bottom line-charge em with a crime or let them go-that's what our constitution says. My question is why are we holding these people, STILL??? If our gov hasn't got enough evidence to prosecute by now, they never will, unless they make some up. Maybe these guys were making the WMDs we were told about :confused:
     
  9. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    Constitution doesn't apply to them, as they are not citizens, neither does the geneva convention, as they are not soldiers. Who gives a crap how they're treated, as long as they're not on the battlefield, creating mayhem, or cutting off peoples heads?

    Maybe we should give them the right to vote in our elections and a free college degree while we're detaining them, just like prisoners in the US, huh? Maybe that would make teddy kennedy happy.

    T
     
  10. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    We don't know what they would be doing, because we have not information about them. So, I guess that a foreign national who is accused of any crime can just be locked up without a trial??? Does that really sound right?? You are presuming these people guilty of a crime and you do not even know what crime they committed. I gotta tell ya, that is some INSANE reasoning!! I did my time from Laos to Lebanon, so don't think I am some left wing ding a ling, but rights are rights, no matter what language someone speaks. Have you read about the internment camps for Japanese-Americans during WW2? Why were no German or Italian-Americans rounded up and put in camps? And yes, I think there is a valid comparison between the two. People being put in confinement because people of their race are in a conflict with our country> CAN YOU SAY PROFILING????
     
  11. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    Those people are in there because they want to Kill Americans. If they are let out they will do all in their power to do what they are programed for. I see no reason to let them out if all they want to do is kill me or my family.
    Those aholes have it made in Gitmo. Many of our children are forced to go to school in worse conditions than those worthless terrorists are being held in.
    Far as I'm concerned...........What Happens in G'itmo Stays in G'itmo :cool1:
     
  12. k5james

    k5james 1/2 ton status

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    Did you read my post at all? A large amount of those people are in there for simple immigration violations that have nothing to do with how they feel towards americans(that and the fact that they happen to be of Arab decent). Should they be deported? Most likely, but should they be detained indefinitely in some Cuban craphole, hell no. Don't give me that crap about them not being citizens either. If you truly feel that way maybe you need to go back and read the Declaration of Independence.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury.

    Unalienable = fundamental rights belonging to people, which cannot be taken away.

    It doesn't say American people it just says people.
     
  13. Leper

    Leper 1/2 ton status

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    hmmmm

    K5JAMES sounds like a lawyer.
     
  14. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    The declaration of independence was specific to the colonies declaring independence from great britain. It laid out the basic tenets of why the US was created. Since the document mentions a creator, I can't believe anyone would want that document applying to their situation today. I doubt the ACLU would stand for it.

    The bill of rights is the first ten amendments of the constitution, which applies to citizens.

    Not enemy combatants who want to do us harm

    Not enemy combatants who might do us harm in the future, regardless of whether we find them on the battlefield, or here in the US.

    Not illegal freakin' immigrants

    but citizens of the US.

    Enemy combatants have no rights under either our laws, or the geneva convention. Not a right to a lawyer, or a trial, or a jury, or an appearance on larry king where they can sell books and justify themselves.

    Every terrorist on US soil starts out as some guy coming over on a visa, for work or school. You call it profiling, I call it making a judgement, erring on the side of caution, based on previous experience. ( remember, only evil conservatives are judgemental)

    And if we let everyone go, and another building was brought down, and our guys kept getting killed by roadside bombs, what do you think the media would say??

    They would say.. " how could you let those murderers loose, why weren't you more careful"... Teddy Kennendy would ask that with a straight face, I'm sure.

    Whatever happens, Bush and his team will be called evil and corrupt, and the us military will be blessed with the false patriotism of a media and certain politicians who say they support them, but don't want them to win. In iraq, or anywhere else.

    So, knowing that, I say we ought to keep potential bad guys locked up and out of play. Better safe than sorry. If they want freedom, they should lay down their weapons, and join us in rebuilding their country. any other action renders them a target.


    Tom
     
  15. k5james

    k5james 1/2 ton status

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    Soknowing thatI say we ought to keep potential bad guys locked up and out of playBetter safe than sorry.
    As quoted from another thread, "Our founding fathers went to war over crap like this.
     
  16. Cricket

    Cricket 3/4 ton status

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    Even the people that work there have mixed opinions.

    From Chaplains to Translators to Guards, some think it's abusive and some think it's humane. I don't think it's an issue so much of general treatment, they are fed well and while humiliated are not being exterminated. They do not have the same rights as US citizens, attorneys, et nor do they deserve them IMO. I don't approve of the torture method for extracting information, I think a little sodium pentathol or similar serum would be more effective. There are other ways to extract information if your willing to invest the time and then you have the issue of appearance. And yes, appearance makes a difference even though some people could care less how it looks. The stupidity of some CIA coerced interrogators has mucked up the whole process.

    As far as permanent detention I think they just don't have any better ideas. Looks to me like they are rounding up anyone who may possibly be a threat and locking them up hoping for a drop in the violence. Prisons are being expanded in Iraq due to the influx of "detainees".

    If you think about he problem of identifying an innocent from a fighter in that country you've got to know it's nearly impossible. Those people do not have personal records & documentation like we do. No credit card history, phone records, residential status, police records, school records, et, that would determine their prior behavior. At best you could hope to find a military record from the Iran/Iraq war. So how will you decide who you can trust? Would you just take their word for it?

    My personal opinion on Iraq it was a waste of resources so I'm not a big advocate. However you can't expect our people over there to treat Iraqis like they treat their own countrymen. That place is a chaotic rathole. You've got people running around with bombs strapped on under their clothes, cars filled with explosives, IED remote bombs planted along the streets, snipers, kidnappers, religious zealots with big knives waiting to chop off your head, et. Now imagine that same scenario here, you'd be screaming for people to be locked up and you wouldn't care how many it took. You wouldn't give a rat's ass about due process and if you were armed you'd probably shoot several yourself.

    I'm all for giving these people due process under law - after our people are safe and we've got a grip on the snake's head. Giving them due process now will not make our people safer, it won't make that place more stable, it will just be another distraction. Iraq is not America and you cannot apply the same standards at this point in time.

    If one of you guys was over there fighting and I had to make a choice on a detainee release here, I'd keep him locked up. If that guy went back to Iraq and killed you or a bunch of others in a bomb attack I'd never forgive myself for making such a stupid blunder. No matter how you treat the hardcore fighters they will never stop trying to kill you. It's part of their religion. Keeping them locked up won't change that but neither will releasing them into the general populace. Yes, there are some innocents locked up but who will make the call on which is which?

    I've got a lot more to say but I'll leave it there.
     
  17. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    All this hand-wringing and self-flagellation is useless. We are in a war right now, that war happens to be with extremist Muslims, we pack as many extremist Muslims into GITMO as we can. I don't see what the problem is.

    As far as the "immigration violation" canard; we all know that the US military is not in the business of rounding up helpless and harmless immigrants just so we can hold them in a "hellhole" (that's a f*ckin' larf) in Cuba and take endless amounts of flak from grandstanding aholes.

    Any of the people held @ GITMO are being held because of their connection to or involvment in terrorist a terrorist related activity, and I don't personally give a chit if they just made dinner for a terrorist, they still belong there. Aid and comfort to our enemies, that's all it takes to put yourself on Uncle Sam's bad side and that's the way it should be.


    As far as "holding ourselves to a higher standard", we do. They are still treated better and given more "rights" and much more humane treatment than they would be anywhere else in the world. Just because they don't recieve the same treatment we give our own citizens is irrelevant.




    Screw it, I'm wasting my breath.


    Here's an update for those who are interested:
    http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18584


    Part 2 of the previous article.
     
  18. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    dick durban is attempting to subvert our system from within and giving aid and comfort to the enemy. He is showing the terrorists that if they just hold out a little longer, internal political pressures will help the terrorists (just like they helped the NVA/VC) win the war. I'm not sure what more Durban could possibly do, short of flying a plane into a skyscraper, that could do more damage than what he is trying to do now. Call it whatever you want, I don't really care what word you find proper, he's supporting the enemy's war effort against us. Did you miss the chapter on Vietnam in highschool history class?

    These people aren't americans, nor are they protected by the Geneva convention. This isn't CSI Afghanistan, they don't need to be read their rights and they don't get to 'walk' on stupid technicalities. In past wars, they were called different names, but regardless they have no legal standing and could be summarily executed. FDR had several German "sabatures" (sp Im sure, damn french words...) executed. Other wartime presidents have done the same and have been perfectly justified in doing so. IMO, we have been excessively lenient.

    most of the prisoners we have captured and brought to GTMO are either outright terrorists or were captured after fighting with our troops in Afghanistan. The joe-blow lower level scum we kept over in Afghanistan or at various "undisclosed locations" elsewhere. Transporting joe-blow taliban guy all the way around the world, at considerable expense, makes no sense. These guys are the worst of the worst. Many MANY of these guys are murderous jihadists. As the linked article noted, several of those people released so far have continued their terrorist ways once released. If people are released who shouldn't be because of some kind of political pressure... and they go on to kill and terrorize more innocent people, that blood is on the hands of those who helped them escape.

    Again, this assumes they have legal rights that they do not enjoy.

    we agree here... terrorist scum should be held so long as we are able to extract intelligence information from them... then they should be executed. That'd cut costs substantially.

    j
     
  19. MarcS

    MarcS 1/2 ton status

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    Thats what my friend says. Most of these Animals are hard core terrorists. They want us DEAD. They want YOU DEAD. This is all they understand. There is no talking to them, no reasoning with them and they will NEVER be rehabilitated. They want to KILL. Thats it, plain and simple.

    HUMANE !!!! I guess cutting off peoples heads while they are alive is less humane than being given 3 free meals a day, free housing, free clothes, free shelter and FREEDOM OF RELIGION.

    We wouldnt have this problem if we would have nuked them. Guess thats why Im not President.
     
  20. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    Where did you come up with this Info? As far as I knew they were all enemy combatants taken from the battlefield, and as far as I'm concerned they should be treated like they treat us...Tortured and Killed :grin: But thats what sets us apart from the animals isn't it :laugh:

    Funny how the only "occupied" countries in the middle east are also the only ones to hold free elections. These people are Barbarians and will come up with whatever excuse they can to kill people who aren't there religon (hell they woill even kill you if you a diferent sect than they are) and need to be kept in a deep dark hole without all this crying for them. I dont understand how it can bother someone so much that people are diferent...as long as you do your thing and it dosent interfear with mine who gives a rats ass..killing because you belive in a diferent god is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard of
     

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