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The war on drugs, claims another casualty

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Ddragggon, Dec 31, 2003.

  1. Ddragggon

    Ddragggon 1/2 ton status

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    As many of you know, I was an assistant scoutmaster for 6 years. Imagine my shock today at learning that one of my favorite scouts, who earned his eagle, and followed in my footsteps as an assistant scoutmaster was arrested for possession with intent to sell for 20 lbs of weed. I don't have all the details, but apparently, a friend asked him to hold it for him... Friend turned out to be a Narc, police swarmed in, he's facing more years than if he killed someone. What kind of [darn] up world do we live in where someone who's put in over 3000 hours of volunteer comunity service is going down as an example for the great war on drugs? He had no intention of selling it, or even hanging onto it... He was set up to take this bullshit fall. I know some of you feel drugs should beget the death penalty, but I personaly don't. If someone wants to party a little, thenfine. As long as they don't show up to work wasted, I could care less. The worst part of this crap, is that hell be in jail for longer than if he killed someone, if they have their way. -Rich
     
  2. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    Drugs suck. I live in Arizona. Being a border state we have lots and lots of dope here. I wish it would go away. Got to lock all my stuff up or it gets stolen.
     
  3. clubba68

    clubba68 1/2 ton status

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    Uhhmmmmmm.... Is it possible that you don't have ALL of the details? As you described it, that would be entrapment. If the police knowingly had a NARC give someone 20lbs of weed to "hang onto" for them, and then swarmed in for the collar, that is entrapment, and that is against the law, and he will get off. IF, that is how it happened. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  4. landsmasher

    landsmasher 1/2 ton status

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    If your friend KNEW it was pot, he's probably screwed. The police use "entrapment" all the time in thier sting operations. He should have known better. If your friend has no previous record he may get off with a fine, probation and community service. What state was that in?
     
  5. SS66

    SS66 1/2 ton status

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    The 'war' on drugs to me is pointless. It simply cannot be won. I dont and will not do drugs; hell.. I wont even take allergy pills, But I have absolutely no problem with others doing them as long as they are in a controlled environment. i.e. Their home for the night. This is supposed to be the land of the FREE
     
  6. 84k5

    84k5 1/2 ton status

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    What kinda dumbass agrees to hold onto 20 pounds of pot. Sounds like he got what he deserved. Maybe he'll be smarter when he gets out.

    It's obvious you are missing part of the story.
     
  7. arq

    arq 1/2 ton status

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    living by a border town i see/hear a lot of stories related to drugs, smuggling, etc, etc. people die, innocent ones too. if someone gets killed growing, smuggling, selling, the sh!t, the end user should be held liable too.

    there used to be a time when i crossed the border daily(had a gf there), some of the people living in the barrio would ask me to give them a ride across along with their backpack. I took one of them for a ride of thier life and never was asked again. let's just say I had the federales pull me over with m16s and shot guns pointed at us...

    ARQ.
     
  8. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    Eagle scout or not, he agreed to hold on to 20 pounds of an illegal substance. He knew it was illegal and held onto it? For a friend? Sounds like he needed to learn to pick better friends. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  9. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Eagle scout or not, he agreed to hold on to 20 pounds of an illegal substance. He knew it was illegal and held onto it? For a friend? Sounds like he needed to learn to pick better friends. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Agreed. Put him away. Maybe if we put them all away, drugs will go away. Not that I think Marijuana is so bad, but it is illegal, we do have laws in this country, and they're for EVERYONE, not just whoever we choose.
     
  10. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    As many of you know, I was an assistant scoutmaster for 6 years. Imagine my shock today at learning that one of my favorite scouts, who earned his eagle, and followed in my footsteps as an assistant scoutmaster was arrested for possession with intent to sell for 20 lbs of weed. I don't have all the details, but apparently, a friend asked him to hold it for him... Friend turned out to be a Narc, police swarmed in, he's facing more years than if he killed someone. What kind of [darn] up world do we live in where someone who's put in over 3000 hours of volunteer comunity service is going down as an example for the great war on drugs? He had no intention of selling it, or even hanging onto it... He was set up to take this bullshit fall. I know some of you feel drugs should beget the death penalty, but I personaly don't. If someone wants to party a little, thenfine. As long as they don't show up to work wasted, I could care less. The worst part of this crap, is that hell be in jail for longer than if he killed someone, if they have their way. -Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's not a casualty of war, that's making a stupid decision.
     
  11. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    First of all, I don't see how this Scout thing makes him some kind of superhero. If the guy is so upstanding what's he doing hanging around with guys who need to have 20 lbs of dope around them?

    Secondly, speaking as a parent, I would truly hope that someone who was involved in the shaping of my child's morals(such as an asst. Scout leader like your friend) would have higher moral standards than the average joe. Your friend showed a severe lack of judgement by possessing, even temporarily, a large amount of illegal goods. Hopefully this same bad judgement wasn't used during the 3000 hours he spent around children and youths........

    And thirdly, there are three facets of the term "truth": His side, their side, and the REAL truth. It sounds to me like your buddy isn't giving you all the details you need to form an educated opinion about this situation.
     
  12. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    CanmoreK5, you pretty much beat me to the punch on that one. A sad reality of our society now is that the majority of pedophiles are scout leaders, teachers, church counselors, coaches, etc. People of that ilk gravitate towards professions that place them squarely in the middle of the temptation patch. I'm not saying this guy is a pedophile at all. But, just because you hold what normally would be an honorable profession doesn't give you an automatic buy on credibility and trust. If anything, putting yourself in one of these positions raises the bar on expectations. If you put yourself on a pedestal, and under the microscope to boot, you probably ought to live your life with an eye towards good judgement every minute, every hour.
     
  13. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The police use "entrapment" all the time in thier sting operations.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Well, that isn't entirely accurate. Here is the definition of entrapment from dictionary.law.com:

    entrapment
    n. in criminal law, the act of law enforcement officers or government agents inducing or encouraging a person to commit a crime when the potential criminal expresses a desire not to go ahead. The key to entrapment is whether the idea for the commission or encouragement of the criminal act originated with the police or government agents instead of with the "criminal." Entrapment, if proved, is a defense to a criminal prosecution. The accused often claims entrapment in so-called "stings" in which undercover agents buy or sell narcotics, prostitutes' services or arrange to purchase goods believed to be stolen. The factual question is: Would Johnny Begood have purchased the drugs if not pressed by the narc?

    Here is what findlaw.com says about entrapment:

    In order to establish entrapment, the defendant has the burden of proving either that he or she would not have committed the crime but for the undue persuasion or fraud of the government agent, or that the encouragement was such that it created a risk that persons not inclined to commit the crime would commit it, depending on the jurisdiction.

    The two critical issues is the "pressing", undue persuasion, or fraud which would be coercion, extreme temptation, threats, or any other pressure that would force a normally law abiding person to change their usual behavior and commit a crime they normally would not. And, the person expressing a desire not to go ahead. Cops can't be mind readers. But, if a suspect verbalizes a desire not to do the act, and the officer insists, that could be entrapment.

    An example would be taking lets say Shania Twain (schwing...), having her approach a normally law abiding citizen, and offering to have sex with them for a week if they bought her a pack of gum. Technically that would be prostitution. Sex for money, or other consideration. But, it would be entrapment. The courts would view the temptation is too extreme. A more realistic example would be an undercover officer constantly badgering, begging, and threatening a snitch with no prior dope arrests to go and buy him some dope. Eventually the person might capitulate to please the officer, or avoid the threat and then the officer busts them.

    Entrapment is one of the first defenses people use when busted by an undercover officer. As a result, police use extreme caution when making a case as to avoid that very defense. I agree that the story being told in this case is highly suspect. The mere fact that the person agreed to hold the dope negates one component of entrapment.
     
  14. landsmasher

    landsmasher 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    putting yourself in one of these positions raises the bar on expectations

    [/ QUOTE ]

    YOU SAID IT!

    Dammit... I wanna see more involvement from the parents. You can't trust ANYONE anymore... Actually you couldn't trust them 30 years ago. You just can't expect the state or the federal government to raise your kids. You have to do that yourselves.

    You have to question anyone who is looking after your kids. They better be up to snuff for me or they are HISTORY!

    I must say that the standard of intelligence that I expect here has been more than matched by the youth who are involved in CK5 and the sport. There is a good future for our country if kids like CK5 kids rule the land in the future. Let's here it for our youth... After all, they are our legacy... /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif



    Off my soapbox now...
     
  15. santana

    santana 1/2 ton status

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    The only way for this to stop, IMO is to legalize drugs. People think that if they are legalized they'll be readily available to anyone. they are now anyway but like alcohol and cigarettes, you use at your own risk. You don't hear of anyone being killed or going to jail for selling alcohol/cigarettes. It will never happen tho, theres too much money involved plus they'd have to get rid of the DEA. /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  16. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    sure leagalize it. That would rock! While the pins are dipped in ink, maybe we can make murder Ok and even encourage rape. You know, cause they're both hard to enforce and all. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

    I think the key is tougher punishment. We have so many freedoms it's unreal. Maybe all felonies require people to get a hand cut off like saudi arabia. Bet they'd think twice about their 420 bullshit habbit.
     
  17. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    You don't hear of anyone being killed or going to jail for selling alcohol/cigarettes.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I've heard of PLENTY of liquor store clerks being shot (mainly when I lived in SoCal), and I've heard of clerks at those stupid cigarette outlet stores getting held up/shot at.

    /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  18. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    I had a bell go off last night thinking about this.

    20lbs????????????

    Who the [darn] carries around 20 pounds of weed except dealers? I can see your friend being a "nice" guy and holding someone's dime bag or a couple of joints, but damn, 20 pounds of dope is a lot of [darn] dope. He should have really been thinking "this guy has 20 pounds of dope, I should really not know this guy."

    Let us take a trip back in time about 12 years ago.

    A man is having a hard time, no job, has a family to feed and is approached by someone who wants some illegal work done to a firearm. The man refuses, but the gun owner is insistent on this guy converting this firearm to something deemed illegal and the man needing money to feed his family finally relents and does the work.

    Turns out to be an undercover/informant that was wanting to have the work done. The man is charged with a federal crime.

    Somewhere along the line, there is a miscommunication, no court notice given and when everything is said and done, the man's wife and young baby are dead along with federal agent(s).

    10 points to the person who knows what preceding incident that was.

    We could sit here all day and argue if the incident was entrapment, for all the information I have read has it that the feds had a hard on to bust this guy; but in all the readings I have done portray the "defendant" as someone who has non-mainstream religous and political beliefs, yet was a man of outstanding morals and was in a position of providing for his family and had fallen on hard times. Did he compromise his standards? Was he the victim of overzealous cops who were relentless?

    I have found that using the DTA standard when it comes to dealing with people. I have been offered illegal firearms for sale by people who for the most part had a great reputation throughout the community and people, and as a strict believer of our Second Amendment rights it is my belief that I have all rights to own said illegal firearm, but currently our government says I cannot own one. I'm not going to put myself into a position to become a victim of the system. Was the deal legit? I do not know and I was not willing to test the waters either.

    Don't Trust Anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  19. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The 'war' on drugs to me is pointless. It simply cannot be won. I dont and will not do drugs; hell.. I wont even take allergy pills, But I have absolutely no problem with others doing them as long as they are in a controlled environment. i.e. Their home for the night. This is supposed to be the land of the FREE

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The reason we won't win cause we have turned into a so-called civilized society with all the liberal pussification that has gone done. These [darn] dealers should be swinging from the trees.

    Now I'm far from being the expert in these matters, but from what I have seen and dealt with and deal with, there is absolutely no value from any of the illegal drugs out there these days and the "controlled" environment idea simply is not possible. These drugs these days make the users bring it out into the public eye in some form, so it affects us all.

    A lot of the people I transport to court have at some time in their live's have used drugs and for the most part, that's the reason they got into the mental health system.

    The drug trade has also affected the national security of this nation and just for that reason, we shouldn't be housing these dumbfawks, convict them, hang them and be done with it.
     
  20. K5Jimmy

    K5Jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Now just for the sake of arguement, let's replace the word "drugs" with "alcohol" and see where some of these opinions take us...

    Possibly weed should be legalized, taxed as alcohol, and sold in ABC environments...the tax we pay on $10 worth of alcohol for example is about 80% in one form or another...meaning we pay an extra $8 for $2 worth of alcohol by the time it hits the market...

    If we take said tax revenues and apply it towards narcotic intervention (coke, heroin, etc), and rigidly enforce laws already in place, I would think a larger dent could be made in the problem...

    We read in all parts of our nation about Drunk driving accidents caused by people who have 5 or more drunk driving convictions who have never served Prison time...6 people dead just this past weekend in Ft Worth comes to mind...

    Anyone with 20lbs of weed is asking for trouble...Hell, anyone with 1 lb is asking for trouble...the brother of a HS friend of mine served 22yrs for a Roach found under his seat when stopped speeding in Arkansas...I work with a guy who served 2 yrs in Ark for the same thing when he was 20...

    I believe in 3 strikes...3 Felonies should be an automatic death penalty...DNA proof of murder, pedophilia or rape should be an authomatic death penalty ...notwithstanding the larger question of self defense, battering, crazed ex-spouses/gf, and other circumstances...said penalties should be subject to immediate review and carried out within a year instead of waiting 10/20...longer prison terms mean building more prisons that I for one don't want to pay for...victims should have more rights than the convicted...

    Arm our borders...Who the [darn] decided we should put "comfort stations" in the Arizona desert for illegals?...being in this country is a Privilege, not a Right...
     

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