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They WONT Bleed- gravity bleed worked-BUT cant finish.HELP!

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by MudNurI, Mar 4, 2003.

  1. MudNurI

    MudNurI 1/2 ton status

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    I'VE HAD IT !!!!!!!!!!!

    Okay- here's the scoop- fixed the leak in the procomp tube fitting- was the copper washer (thanks steve)...

    Undid the bleeder screws- cleaned them up- put them back in- unscrewed them- took the cover of the MC and waited for gravity to set in- 9 minutes later- there was fluid running down the inside of each of my tires OKAY it worked- screw them back in- fill up the MC (was about 1/2 empty)..put the cover back on- and pump away- start with the RR- pumped the pedal till it got some "pressure" behind it- John released the bleeder screw- and fluid came out- no pressure behind the fluid- same amount of pressure as when it was "gravity bleeding"...try this again- pedal has no resistance at start- pump away- leg's on fire- 30 minutes- NADA no pressure behind the flow of fluid- the pedal doenst move any further towards the floor when the screw is released-

    WTF is going on??? How do I know if the Proportion (??) Valve is shot? Fill me in guys- cause I'm really close to sending it over a cliff.

    thanks
    Brandy
     
  2. RingMaster4x4

    RingMaster4x4 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    When you figure it out let me know because my k5 is doing the samething. But it is only the rear with no pressure. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
     
  3. florida4x4

    florida4x4 1/2 ton status

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    I had loads of problems with mine until I replaced the rear rubber line (from frame to axle). After that bleeding was a breeze /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    FWIW
     
  4. ZonkRat

    ZonkRat 1/2 ton status

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    May be dumb question,but,is the engine running while trying to pump pressure?I went through similar prob once on the camper.Without the vacume pressure it wouldn't start building brake pressure.Finally got them working and either way worked then. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  5. MudNurI

    MudNurI 1/2 ton status

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    every single piece of brake line on this truck is new.

    thats why im trying to bleed them

    Brandy
     
  6. Seventy4Blazer

    Seventy4Blazer 3/4 ton status

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    if you can tow it to a midas or other big name shop i would power bleed them. otherwise keep trying the way you are, even the sugested with the engine running. im no brake expert, but i always power bleed after a large job. its 35 dollars out here. i spent 2 days of like 4 hours a day bleeding a system. had it so it was NICE. figured what the h#!!, ill take it down there to make sure all the fluid is new. not that i wasnt sure of it anyway. bt i felt a BIG difference when they did it. it was WAY nice pedal.
    grant
     
  7. ZonkRat

    ZonkRat 1/2 ton status

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    I've got a hand held pump for vacume or pressure{just reverse the hoses}that does good job.I use it to pump fluid from wheels back to the MC.Got it at Advance for about 30$.If you replaced all the lines there may be air pocket trapped somewhere.
     
  8. MudNurI

    MudNurI 1/2 ton status

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    i got one of those yesterday- didnt use it- didnt bring it cause was SURE this gravity thing was gonna work- will try it tomorrow-

    the nearest brake shop from here is about 40 miles away- the truck was already on a flat bed once this weekend- really dont want to tow it again....

    UUGGHHHH I HATE THIS FAWKIN TRUCK!
     
  9. MudNurI

    MudNurI 1/2 ton status

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    movin it back to the top-

    someone help me
     
  10. ZonkRat

    ZonkRat 1/2 ton status

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    Don't let it get you to mad.You'll get it before time to come down and play with the rest of us.Good luck. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  11. schmuck

    schmuck 1/2 ton status

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    check to make sure that a new rubber line is not expanding some where, did you bench bleed the master cyclender(sp?)
     
  12. bigbluek20

    bigbluek20 1/2 ton status

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    Did you replace the master cylinder? You might need some time doing the bench bleeding thing.

    After my axle swap, I did a lot of fighting with the air in the system... seems I just couldn't push it fast enough to keep the bubbles from floating up all the time. Tried 2 man bleeding, the vacuum pump, and much head scratching. Then, I bought some bleeder screws that have check valves in them (about $12/pair at NAPA, I think they now have them in the "help" line at Autozone et al even cheaper).

    Within 10 minutes... BY MYSELF... the brakes were working great. Best $25 I ever spent.
     
  13. RLBstein

    RLBstein 1/2 ton status

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    To add to that... I bought a set, front and rear, from Speedbleeder and that was the best thing a person can do for any vehicle they own. One person, 5 minutes, and your done bleeding the darn brakes. They cost about $7.00 a piece from Speedbleeder.com and if you break one while installing it, yes it does happen, they will replace them for free, no questions asked. If you cant get the broken piece out of the caliper, send it to them and they will take it out and install them for you, no charge (except shipping of course).
     
  14. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    Look on the end of the proportioning valve for a little button. Usually has a rubber cap on it. Push it in. I had a problem on my 73 pick up and that was the problem. As far as bleeding goes, run down to Wallmart and get a pack of 4 cheepo type rubbermaid containers, get some fish tank tubing that fits on the end of the bleeders, put a hole in the container for the tube to fit in and pour some brake fluid in each one, hook the tube on the bleeder and open them up and let it run through about 2 master cylinders of fluid. Just don't let the MC go dry and suck air.
     
  15. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    It's air stuck in the Combination Valve (Proportioning valve). It compresses and you can't get the valves to open when it does this. If you look at it it sits at an angle on the crossmember. There is a reason for this I think. It's so you can get it to bleed out. with a full master open the top lines (driverside front out and the two coming down from the master) about 4-5 turns so they start leaking but don't come loose. Tap the CV with a wrench to dislodge the air. I had luck doing this on my truck and it got the peddle up so it would bleed correctly. Took a couple tries to get it to work.

    One of my friends is a pro mechanic and when he has a stuborn system he tkaes a modified cap for the master that has a couple fittings. He puts a small vacuum on the system for a few hours. This draws the air back up into the reservior. He swears by it on problem systems. Power bleeding does the same thing because it pulls a vacuum.
     
  16. MudNurI

    MudNurI 1/2 ton status

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    am gonna try the "push in the plug" thing tonight when we go over...if that don't work- I'll bang on the damn thing...and if that doenst work- well you'll see my truck on your local news- cause Im gonna torch it, and send it over a cliff.

    One thing to note- while getting p*ssed at it yesterday- when I pulled it outta the garage- and drove it into the snowbank- I gotta tell ya- I now know WHY you guys enjoy going off-road...I had it resting ever so nicely on the snowbank....looked pretty cool- she wanted to keep going...and I finally found a reason to have "granny gear"...hmmmmm just maybe it'll see some trail action in Tellico....

    John's words were " Yup- I knew it- your gonna bring it back from Tellico with carnage arent ya?" /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    Just have to make sure all the damage happens to the rear half of the truck- that old sheet metals not too pretty- but the stuff in the front is beautiful..

    Brandy
     
  17. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Well you don't exactly "push" that button. Pull the rubber cap off. Under it you will see sort of a knob and in the center is a pin. That pin has to be PULLED. It won't press. You press on the knob section to expose the pin. There is a actual tool to do this but you could do it with a pair of plyers. The problem is that the bore the assebmly rides in is going to be full of crud and there is a chance that when you push in that the seal will be damaged or that the crud may stick under the seal and cause a leak. LAST resort is messing with that.

    The way the master cylinder works is the rear piston presureizes fluid between the rear and the front piston and that's what drive the front brakes. It will eventualy bottom out and mechanicaly push the front brake piston but you loose a lot of travel. When your trying to beel that means you may not have enough travel to compress the air enough to open the meetering valve in the front circuit (what you would manualy open with the pin).
    Knowing this the problem is air in the rear system. Proably in the proportioning valve. Because the angle the valve sits at there is NO WAY you can bleed the air out through the line to the rear. Try my crack open the lines trick first because it's less risk of causing a leak. Took me a lot of cussing and throwing of tools to figure out the problem. Once the rear system has pressure the front bleeds out pretty easy because there is enough travel to purge the air.
    I also disagree with the bleed the farthest from master first. Do start with the rear and bleed both sides first. This gets the rear circuit working like I mentioned above. If it is not bleed then you will have problems up front I can guarantee.
    Bleed the driverside front next. The reason is the driveside line comes into the top of the Proportioning valve. Air is going to want to raise to the highest point it can so it will exit that line the easiest and prevent any from getting into the passengerside front circuit.

    As for Tellico...Hell I may ride with you /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'll hopefully be bringing the Airstream as home away from home so I don't want to take any major risks because I'll have to get it home. Dep and Keiths trucks will be too tall to pull it.
     
  18. MudNurI

    MudNurI 1/2 ton status

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    K- so if I got this right-

    the tubes to loosen are on the comp valve- They are the ones that were a PIA to get threaded- yup- thatd be them....

    once this is done- then I crack it with a wrench (well not literally)...tighten them back down- and bleed them as normal-

    here's a questoin- this comp valve also controls the idiot light on my dash.........I'd think when the valve is no longer "air bound" the light will go out....which would make me believe if I do as stated- and the lights still on- its still "air bound"...

    My home away from home will be the Holiday Inn- and worse case scenario with my truck- I end up having to make this an extended vacation while it gets fixed- should it break....

    thanks grim
     
  19. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    Brandy
    Just find a place that can power-bleed your brakes and your done. After my D60 swap I couldn't get my brakes to bleed worth a crap, took them to a shop and had them power-bled, hit the brakes for the first time and about went through the windshield.
     
  20. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Those would be the ones. Just loosen them and you wont have to much problem because they will still be lined up. The fluid will be running through the lines coming from the master so you should not get any in them. Just have to jolt the air out of the C/V by tapping on it with a wrench.

    On the light...yes once you get the air out of the systems and the parking brake is released the light should go off.
    So your not going to camp? hehehe we will probably hang out at crawford camp and knock back a few saturday night. You drink, I pop the beads on your tires so you can drive. Might want to bring a tent just incase. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     

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