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this engine, with $1K, can it be done?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by XHitman396, May 24, 2003.

  1. XHitman396

    XHitman396 1/2 ton status

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    welp while i was bored, and grounded, i decided to check up on engines for Tracy, and this is what i came up with: Displacement: 350 cu. in.
    Carburetor: Holley 750 double-pumper
    Heads: GM L31 Vortecs, pocket-ported, with 1.94/1.50 in. valves
    Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM Vortec
    Camshaft: Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 268 hydraulic, with 0.478/0.480 in. of lift and 224/230° of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift.
    Exhaust: Hedman 1 5/8 in. headers and Borla XR-1 mufflers
    Distributor: HEI
    Comp. Ratio: 9.4:1

    MAX HP: 409 @ 6000
    MAX Torque: 427 @ 3500


    sound right? got this from a pretty cool site i picked up from here, well the changes that will occur are: TBI, so intake will be different, exhaust will be Thorley Tri-Y's, and i was thinkin, can i bore it out to a 383 and keep everything else the same, except the pistons of course, and still get same/more power, i only wanna spend about $1,000 on this, but will (unwillingly) spend up to, and no more than, $1,500. please be as specific as possible, and talk to me like im an idiot, cuz yall blow me away sometimes, and any other suggestions are welcome, and a rebuild kit will be in the budget too. Thanks in advance for all your input.... BTW, the truck is an 87 k5, with soon to be 35's, and a mud-only, and maybe minor hills, but no sand or rocks or anything... and try to keep the compression down if possible, sorry to be picky, but im really lookin into it serious, and need to know exactly what i want /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
     
  2. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Good setup, but the carb needs to be smaller and vacuum secondary for a truck.

    I'd make sure you've got good gears, a good intake, and good exhaust. That motor doesn't have the low end that a torqueyier truck motor typically would have. It's a great build though.
     
  3. big pappa b

    big pappa b 3/4 ton status

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    You cannot bore a 350 to make a 383. A 383 requires crank and rods from a 400 and usually a little machining on the block to make the clearances all good. That will most likely eat up your $1000 budget right there.
     
  4. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    smaller carb say a truck avenger 670 or a good vaccum secondary 650 and smaller primary tubed headers. Say 1 1/2" instead of 1 5/8, you understand that though. That will bring the torque numbers lower. Won't be making such Horsepower but in a truck it won't be as big a deal. Other thing, to rev to that 6000 RPMs you would want a quality build on the bottom end. Say with ARP studs and such. Single parts of an engine are cheap but they add up real real quick. Also that cam exceed the max lift on the vortec heads. Max lift on vortec heads is .450 both specs exceed that. You will need new valve springs, retainers, and some machine work. More and more money right there.
     
  5. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Let's do the math:

    >Carburetor: Holley 750 double-pumper
    $250? (I haven't bought a carb in at least 15 years!)

    >Heads: GM L31 Vortecs, pocket-ported, with 1.94/1.50 in. valves
    $500 for the heads
    $100-200 for the pocket porting

    >Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM Vortec
    $200?

    >Camshaft: Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 268 hydraulic, with 0.478/0.480 in. of lift and 224/230° of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift.
    $150 w/lifters?
    Add in another $50 for a timing chain set
    Add in another $50-75 for valve springs, 'cause the cam is pushing a bit too hard on what a stock Vortec had can handle
    Add in another $75-100 for machine work on the heads to fit the valve springs

    >Exhaust: Hedman 1 5/8 in. headers and Borla XR-1 mufflers
    Hedman's are pretty cheap. $100?
    Borlas are NOT pretty cheap. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif My Borla Hemi mufflers cost $104 each way back in 1989.

    The bad news is, we haven't even talked about any of the machine work for the block. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif If the block needs to be bored, then you have to buy new pistons. To do a 383 there's some slight clearance work that has to be done to clear the rods, then the cost of the crank, rods and pistons. Just those 3, as stated earlier, are gonna set ya back close to your $1,000 limit. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    Then there's cam bearings, rod bearings, main bearings, gaskets, new freeze plugs, etc. Figure $150 at the low end and the price goes up as the quality of the parts increases. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    383's aren't cheap. I had just a 383 short block built in '92 or so and it cost close to $2,000. That's with NO heads.

    There are places out there that will sell you a 350 short block for $600-700 dollars, but you can bet the farm that they are cutting every corner possible to meet that price target. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    Like the old saying goes: "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to spend"? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  6. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    My plan for my next truck is, vortec heads(no port), edelbrock tbi vortec intake, maybe 2" bore throttle body, cam that is within the specs of the vortec heads and roller retrofit, 1 1/2" primary headers, and mufflers I am undecided. My goal is 220+ horsepower at the wheels. I think I will be well clear of that but I don't like to be like every other kid I know who says the max horsepower they hope they may be able to produce and say thats what they will be doing. Oh and I will probably be close to 1000 when all is said and done and thats without even removing the engine from the truck to touch the bottom end.
     
  7. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I would have to say if you are intending to use the Vortecs, through the pocket porting idea out the window. Everything I've seen says don't waste your time porting the Vortecs, light porting won't do squat in terms of measurable gains, and they are pretty thin castings to do a large amount of porting on.
     
  8. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Check out Page 67 in the July 2003 issue of Car Craft. It's an article on how you can wake up the Vortec heads by doing some slight port work on the exhaust side. The intake side flows very well in stock form, but the exhaust side can still use some help. With just a little work they were able to pick up an extra 28 HP and 17 lb/ft of torque. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif The cool thing is that the increase in both was spread across the entire RPM band. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif It made a slight difference up to about 4,000 RPM, but from there on up the difference was pretty sweet!
     
  9. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    yeah but over 4k you get into a lot more stuff. I don't think my engine ever revs over 6500 rpms and thats a stock bottom end. If you want to hit that power above 4k you need to balance the bottom end and build it up a little.
     
  10. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    A bone stock 350 can hit 5,500 with no problem. Add a better cam and valve springs and you can twist it up even further. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif 5,500 was the factory redline on my '77 Blazer's in-dash tach. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif You guys that never rev past 4K are missing the fun part of the power band. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  11. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

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    you/d be better off looking for a BBC for that price. If it mud only, there is no replacement for displacement.
     
  12. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Most of us aren't going to be getting much useable power past 3500, so the gains in my case would be almost nothing. If I was mudding the truck, sure, but with a torque peak way below 4000, and HP peak below that as well, it would be pointless for me, and others like me using "torque producing" cams, induction systems and so on.

    If a magazine would pay to have MY heads ported, and the engine dyno tested, I'd let them have at it too! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  13. Bhintz

    Bhintz 1/2 ton status

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    the only suggestions I would make is dont pocket port vortec heads flow great out of the box, go to scoggin dickey and get the vortec heads w/ the upgrade Z28 valve springs b/c the stock ones wont be able to handle the cam you want. dont get that double pumper unless you do straight flat mud pits they are great for drag racing but suck off road I would go with the truck avenger 770cfm carb. and get some 2 chamber flowmasters much cheap than the borla and to me sound a hell of a lot better.
     
  14. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    personally I like the flowmaster sound but sometimes it gets old. My friend has a flowmaster on his truck and after like 30 minutes of running about the same RPMs just cruising it gets sickengly annoying. My truck with the dual cherry bombs doesn't sound as nice but something about it doesn't get as annoying to me. I like the semi straight through designs that are fairly tame at low RPMs and then just SLAM out noise when they get up in the Rs. Thinking Hooker Aero Chamber for my next truck.
     
  15. CHEVY 4WD

    CHEVY 4WD 1/2 ton status

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    I agree with HarryH3 Its gonna cost you alot more then $1000 and he is really right on those borla's there very expensive
     
  16. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Most of us aren't going to be getting much useable power past 3500, so the gains in my case would be almost nothing.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I'll gladly give up a few ft/lbs on the bottom end to be able to engage the warp drive when I'm passing someone on a 2-lane. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I slightly overcammed my TPI 383, but it still pulls out of the hole way stronger than the stock 'vette 350 did. And once it gets over 2,500 RPM all hell breaks loose. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif It's a freakin' blast to drive. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  17. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I just read the article. Something like 6 hp or ft lbs increase max below 4500. Lot of work and/or money for that kind of gains, for those of us that make no power over that RPM.

    If you've got the time and tools, it's a free mod, and power is power. But if you've gotta go out and buy the porting stuff, or pay someone to do it, that money would be more effective in another mod. At least IMO.

    Up high the porting made a world of difference, but personally, I think the gains they saw under 4500RPM are probably within the realm of manufacturing differences.
     
  18. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    I've got the tools and take the time. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Doesn't everyone that messes with engines keep a set of carbide burrs and a porting kit in the garage? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I love it when the engine keeps pulling long past when it should be falling flat on its face! /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif I don't like to build tractor engines. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  19. BlazerGuy

    BlazerGuy 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    If you've got the time and tools

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Not to mention the skill! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  20. Pure Insanity

    Pure Insanity 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I love it when the engine keeps pulling long past when it should be falling flat on its face! /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif I don't like to build tractor engines. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]Finally, someone on the same wavelenght as I am. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    My tach on recall.
     

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