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This sucks! - Dana Corp filing for bankruptcy

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by shane74, Mar 3, 2006.

  1. shane74

    shane74 1/2 ton status

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  2. NYDIESELDAVE

    NYDIESELDAVE 1/2 ton status

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    That sucks ...
     
  3. Cricket

    Cricket 3/4 ton status

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    "The filing covers Dana and 40 U.S. subsidiaries. It excludes Dana's European, South American, Asia-Pacific, Canadian and Mexican subsidiaries, which are operating as normal, Dana said."

    They'll just outsource and your parts will come from Zambia.
     
  4. K5MONSTERCHEV

    K5MONSTERCHEV 1/2 ton status

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    Intresting......
     
  5. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    holy crap... someone get some investors together and buy all the hardware that Dana has related to the Dana 60... and then start mass producing them for the 4x4 world. :thumb:

    j
     
  6. willyswanter

    willyswanter 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Umm, thats already been done. Take your choice of Yukon, Crane, Dedenbear, Rockstomper, etc.

    I don't see a big deal, all the axles you guys buy are old so there already produced and the dana spicer innards aren't that great anyway. Only thing spicer on my is the housing.
     
  7. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    Can you say... NON UNION! Unions are killing our manufacturing. Its not the wages. Its the outragious benefits they demand. Companies just cant afford it anymore. They cant compete. Thanks unions! For driving our jobs overseas.
    Dana, Delphi,in chapter 11 Ford and GM will prolly be next.
    Just keep taxing the rich soon we will all be poor.
     
  8. big94gmc

    big94gmc 1/2 ton status

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    Good point..... But the question of quality comes up. (at least for me it does)
     
  9. 89GMCSuburban

    89GMCSuburban 1/2 ton status

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    GM is refusing to file for bankruptcy since, if it does, it'll actually hurt Ford as well. GM would be able to negotiate cheaper labor rates while Ford would be stuck, so GM would be able to lower prices and beat down Ford till they have to file as well.

    Notice, Dana lost the Dodge deal for their axles. AAM (formerly Saginaw....you guys may have heard of it...) got the contract for the heavy Dodges. Dana's business is now mostly Medium Duty, Nissan Titan rear-ends, Jeeps (not sure if they are still in every jeep...seen their specs turn into metric stuff on all but the Wrangler), and Ford front ends. I've seen their share, at least in Freightliners, go down. I've seen a grand total of 2 DS-404 axles in the last 2 months. Meritor (Rockwell) is the most common, with Daimler-Chrysler gaining ground. Now...Roadranger is a combo of Eaton and Dana working together....but I don't see many of the products Dana makes for it.

    It even says in that report, declining market share. They've lost some big contracts, and I bet that's hurt them more than anything else....but if it is Unions as well, Chapter 11 allows them to discuss new rates and benefits changes so they can get back on their feet.
     
  10. kick

    kick 1/2 ton status

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    No one but no one in this country can compete with China,Mexico etc. When it comes to low wages
     
  11. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    I though Arvin-Meritor was part of International?

    Doesn't AAM supply the 3/4 and 1-ton axles for GM, too?
     
  12. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    yes & I think the IFS fronts, too.

    ...and Thunder, obivously union wages are the only cause:rolleyes:

    Funny, if I take this new job I'll get paid more as a non-union contractor than the union guys doing the same job.
     
  13. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I'm not pro-union, but you can't blame them for everything. http://futureoftheunion.com/?p=2074
     
  14. 89GMCSuburban

    89GMCSuburban 1/2 ton status

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    Nope! International makes some of their own stuff, but Arvin-Meritor renamed itself, but is still the same company it used to be....Rockwell.

    And yeah, AAM supplies every GM differential in the light truck field...even the Colorado/Canyon duo.
     
  15. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    I think you need to re read my post............ never said wages were the cause.............. I said benifits Companies have to pay union employees are killing manufacturing in America. Wages are no problem. Its just when you have to pay 12,000+ workers wages, + workers medical + retirement not to work because technology has passed them and they have been replaced with a machine. But the union sez they have to be payed till they get off their lazy asses and get a job. That hurts companies. Like GM
    When they have to pay not only the medical benifits of not only the employee but the employe's entire family plus uncle albert. Thay hurts companies.
    When companies have to pay retirement cuz people were too stupid to invest their money It hurts companies.
    Once upon a time GM, Ford, Chysler, owned the car market.
    Now they are struggling.
    GM has barly 23%
    Ford 18%
    Chysler 13%
    US companies barely sell 50 % of the cars sold in america.
    Why
    Well... quality is one reason. US car manufactures sacrificed quality to pay union benifits.
    Design is another reason. Most US cars look like ****. forign cars are much more appealing to the eye. US car makers cant afford to give the people what they want cuz labor expences are to high. Gotta design them so they are cheap to build and not labor intensive. cant afford to pay labor.
    But the really scary part is the US auto industry is just a microchoism ov what will hapen to the United States. When our government is forced by the liberals to give universal healh care, retirement, and cradle to grave entitlements.
     
  16. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    Next time I'll be more clear. When I typed "wage" I meant "wage & benefits package".



    That US/Jap argument really does wash anymore. Large numbers of "American" cars are no longer built in the US (GM & Dodge trucks along with Jeeps) while "foreign " ones are (Nissan, Toyota, BMW). Hell, Dodge isn't even a US company anymore. If the car is not built here then its not being built w/ union labor.

    Buying these so called "American" cars only benefits the management. The shop workers and sales force can just as easily work for the "foreign" place.

    It does not matter if a company is union or not, small assembly work is going to be outsourced. I've seen it happen in aviation. Wining harnesses that were once made in Savannah are now made in Mexico. It was a non-union shop that payed its direct employees way below industry standard, along with almost no benefits, yet they still sent the work out. The gap is huge and its even bigger when using third world countries. And of course it also happens to union companies, the plastic box maker near my dad's shop sent their work to China.

    As far as percentages, the US auto makers did not keep up with consumer demands. Plain and simple. Quality sucked, design sucked (and still does to a large extent), marketing sucked, see where this is going. Part of the problem was regulatory demands of our gov. Yet when the importers were able to work with in the those limits the "Big 3" cried for protection so they could keep building the same crap. (Funny thing about that, unions were a factor in that happening, but it sure didn't help them in the end. So I guess those lousy designers & engineers should thank the unions for buying them the time to let them keep cranking out the same crap for a few extra years.)

    I know this is coming out pro-union, but my point is that there is more to the loss of American mfg jobs than unions. It starts with laziness-and that starts at the top. CEOs and other offices taking huge stock and benefits packages that make a union contract look like a joke. This happens even if the company is loosing billions of dollars. Why, because they also have contracts with the company. Most do not like to admit it, but if it is a publicly traded company you can look it up. And it (laziness/sense of entitlement) trickles down to the shop floor. Why should Joe the broom pusher bust his @ss when Mr. Bossman just go tagged for insider trading?

    Are unions perfect? Hell no. Do they destroy individual businesses? Yes, they can. Does management? Absolutely. How about crappy designers and engineers? They won't admit it, but they sure do.

    The truth is, unions are so week at this point in our country's history that if management really wanted to stand up to them they could. So many states are "right to work" that new workers would just be brought in. Only in industries covered by the Railway Act can the unions get around the right to work laws, and the auto industry is not one of them. Neither is steel, and that is an even bigger mess.
     

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