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Thoughts of a Stall Converter experience on the rocks.

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Sandman, Feb 6, 2003.

  1. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    I like my 2400 stall but in really technical rock crawling and even when trying to float on the snow it seems to work against me. In other cases I believe it helps. I have tried riding the brake and gas for more control but this seems to have mixed results. I plan on pulling it out for Moab this spring. Who has run both and what do you think? Thanks.
     
  2. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    I have always hear dyou want a low stall for rocks and wheelin. Something stock or very close to it....

    What are you asking when you ask who has run both? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  3. BorregoK5

    BorregoK5 1/2 ton status

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    I ran a 350ci with a 222/222 cam and a 2800 stall on my truck for a few short trips on my 1/2 ton axles and 33's. The only areas I noticed it working against me was the extra tranny heat it generated (which resulted in a higher engine temp as well) and I was more prone to spinning a tire. The stock converter on that same engine and cam was a little worse at spinning tires and a little better at reducing the overal tranny heat, the engine heat still rose up a little. I've since moved to a lower than stock TCI towing converter (4x4 truck one) and I gained a lot of traction control and do not have any heat up problems anymore. Off the rocks it does me really well but I'm running the 415ci now so the lower stall isn't really an issue. Gas mileage is nearly 15mpg compared to the 8mpg that it was on the higher stall with the smaller engine. It can run a full 12 hour day on a 30 gallon tank when I'm out crawling.


    Akkk! and I just noticed that I'm <font color="blue"> BLUE </font color>... the shame.. oh the shame!!!
     
  4. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    Well, I was looking for people that have run the stock and the higher stall converters to see what the real world opinions were.
     
  5. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    So it sounds like the stock is the batter way to go with your experience. Thanks.
     
  6. marv_springer

    marv_springer 1/2 ton status

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    Lower stall (stock or more towards stock) is mo' better for rocks.

    Marv
     
  7. Waxer

    Waxer 1/2 ton status Author

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    haha he said "mo`" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  8. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  9. ratlover

    ratlover 1/2 ton status

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    Ever thought of a switch pitch converter? Hey, its only money right?
     
  10. MJB774X

    MJB774X 1/2 ton status

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    I don't know if this will help answer your question, but to my understanding stall speed is not what most people think,what I was told was that a smaller torque converter has less surface area for the fluid to "grab" so inturn allowing it to rev higher, not to conclude but also when the engine reaches the rpm at which stall is rated at the torque multiplier in the converter no longer can multiply because the turbines are spinning at the same speed therefore assuming the wheels don't break loose and the brakes can hold the power created the engine works against it self inside the torque converter, stalling it out, sounds confusing /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif it does to me also. anyone have a better way of explaining or a different therory? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  11. Butch

    Butch 1/2 ton status

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    I know Greg had a 1200 stall in his before his doubler and it would not turn the tires. He could hold it at full throttle and would have to work the steering wheel to get it to move. He went to an 1800 stall and it drove like a different truck. Course this is with a stock 350. With your torque monster stock would probably be best.
     
  12. ZonkRat

    ZonkRat 1/2 ton status

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    I always understood that T C stall speed was the RPMs at which the tires would start to spin and for offroading lower stall was better.High stall speed with really low gears works OK,but,it builds more heat because of the slippage it allows.It shock loads drivetrain more,like popping the clutch at higher RPMs.Could be wrong cause I've always ran stick. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gifer /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  13. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    When i rebuilt my Th350 in my Blazer i slammed in a new summit 1800-2000 stall converter... this is rated at about 300-400 rpms above stock stall speed.
    I didn't notice a huge difference. I can power brake it to a higher rpm now before it will spin the tires both on the street and off road.
    On rocks there is a little more slip to it than a stock converter, seems like i do have to rev it up slightly higher but if it gets the rpms closer to your torque band then thats a good thing.
    I like because it slips up a few more hundred rpms like that to give me a faster launch on the street or sand dragin'.
    It does create more heat though so a good tranny cooler is a good idea. I've been wanting to install a temp gauge also.
    I posted a message a while back asking about stall speeds, i think you, sandman, replied and I know Jeff, Crawlin70 told me he had a 2200 stall in his truck and liked it for crawling.

    I have a 3,000 stall in my camaro and there is no way i'd want to run that rock crawling or slow going on trails.
    Unless strictly sand and mud that high of a stall is too much. I'd say 2200 is almost pushing it for a trail rig. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  14. sidslc

    sidslc Registered Member

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    I have the truck 502,th400 and the 203/205 doubler with 4.56:1 gears and 42" TSL's in a 6200 lb blazer. the torque converter that I went with was an allison RV unit with a 1200 rpm stall. If I could go back I would probably go with a 1400-1500 stall speed converter. If I bairley touch the gas the thing just go's. If I had the higher stall speed converter I believe that i could finesse the throttle a little bit more.
     
  15. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    I dont mind the stall for the street or in the mud but the problem that I have now is this:

    When creeping up something really hairy, If I dont ride the brake, The motor RPM rises and rises and then the converter flashes and at the higher RPM (2500 or so) the tires get a wad of torque and spin out on me. I can ride the brakes and overcome this but that has been very hard on components and is a pain when I'm trying to pay attention to 30 other things at the same time. Like Butch said low end torque is not an issue with my engine. I might swap it out next month and see what I think.
     
  16. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Just outta curiousity what is your gearing?
    What's yer crawl ratio?
    Do you think the stall converter would be as noticable if you had a lower crawl ratio with a doubler?
    I'm trying to imagine if that would make it less noticable or more noticable with a lower crawl ratio?

    It sounds like you might want to swap in a stock converter, that sounds like more what your after... maybe one less thing to battle. 2400 does seem a little high... i'm happy with my 1800-2000 stall for now.

    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  17. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    I have a TH350 with the 205 transfercase. The gears are 5.13. Its works out to somewhere around 50:1. A doubler is needed no matter what but the stall change might help to problems I am seeing.
     
  18. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I guess i couldn't figure out what tranny you were running in yer profile. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    I'm just thinking if you had that option to throw it into 4:1, that stall converter would be twice as noticable.... and twice as hard to battle and have to powerbrake while crawling. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
     
  19. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    I think it would be better. The stall converters "stall" will vary around depending on the torque it has to deal with. More torque, it will stall higher. The gear change caused it to stall a little lower. I think with a 4:1, the engine would be working less and the torque would flash at a lower rpm. Of course, I could really have this wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  20. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Yeah that makes sense.
    It seems like it would be either twice as bad or half as noticable if you went from 2:1 to 4:1.
    Makes sense the torque would flash at a lower rpm.

    /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif
     

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