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tie rod modification so that pass side spindle gets rod straight from pitma

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by R72K5, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. R72K5

    R72K5 Banned

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    is there a modification that changes steering rods setup so that the pass side spindle doesnt have to get steered from the driver side spindle, like a mod that connects the two spindles to a rod straight from pitman ?


    im sure there is, but ive never really seen, any pics ? i want to learn
     
  2. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    What you're referring to as a spindle isn't a spindle at all, that's the KNUCKLE.

    There is no modification to eliminate a tie rod that I'm aware of. Some move the tie rod above the axle for "hi steer" but everyone has a tie rod.
     
  3. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    in an offroad only rig, with some really high quality hydro parts it'd prolly be possible to just run 2 hydro rams, each connecting the axle to the l/r steering arms and have no tie rod at all. I brought this up on pirate and some peeps there who REALLY know steering say its possible for an ORO rig, but not the optimal setup mainly because of issues with alignment adjustment and what could happen when parts break etc.

    j
     
  4. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    You mean like I think on a Toyota truck?

    Kind of like a crossover that only made it halfway?
     
  5. R72K5

    R72K5 Banned

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    knuckle, spindle, whatever im used to 2wd teminology in which it is technically a spindle, sorry i do that, haha, once i learn soemthing one way its normally very hard to change to another haha
     
  6. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    Are talking about having to seperate drag links or do you mean a drag link that attaches to the tie rod? If you are asking about the latter, then I know both Ford & Jeep have used this set up. If you mean the former, well, search for jek's post on Pirate.
     
  7. R72K5

    R72K5 Banned

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    i mean where you can have draglink connect directly to TRE bar instead of to the driver sid espindle top with the sterrin arm, eliminate those two and run draglink off pitman arm straight to TRE bar,

    wouldnt such a design make for a little better steering for pass side? ? or no ?
     
  8. az-k5

    az-k5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: tie rod modification so that pass side spindle gets rod straight from p

    I think you mean like this

    [​IMG]
    The pink lateral bar is the tie rod and the black angular bar, with the 6" pink adjusting sleeve, is the drag link. That steering system isn't really possible with a spring over. You need to have spring under, coils, or hi-steer.
    sorry about the size of the pic.
     
  9. R72K5

    R72K5 Banned

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    Re: tie rod modification so that pass side spindle gets rod straight from p

    yeah i guess thats pretty much it, draglink is connected to TRE bar so thats basically what i was referring to yeah, i guess there really is no way to cnnect strag link to TRE bar closer to center of the bar, i guess that would require one heck of a custom pitman arm haha

    hmm so cant really modify in such a way without couil front ?


    hmm..

    how much does this mod help with steerign and such, apparently it is meant more for offroading performance than anything else.

    right ?
    or ?
     
  10. R72K5

    R72K5 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Are talking about having to seperate drag links or do you mean a drag link that attaches to the tie rod? If you are asking about the latter, then I know both Ford & Jeep have used this set up. If you mean the former, well, search for jek's post on Pirate.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    yes but pitman arm(or well yeah drag link then ok) connected directly to TRE bar/pipe, instead of having to connect to spindle/knuckle/steering arm on one side and then having to send tre over to other side of truck to other spindle/knuckle,
    a way to steer both wheels `at the same time', or i mean having to rely on one wheel to steeer the other.

    basically just like a 2wd!


    haha


    yep
     
  11. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    yes but pitman arm(or well yeah drag link then ok) connected directly to TRE bar/pipe, instead of having to connect to spindle/knuckle/steering arm on one side and then having to send tre over to other side of truck to other spindle/knuckle,

    [/ QUOTE ]
    This is stock on J10 P/Us & Wagoneres. IIRC it is also stock on EBs. When we first swapped the J10 D44 into my buddy's Z-71 we used this setup (stock Jeep) connected to the stock IFS steering box w/ the same Ford drop pitman arm that we use for x-over. It worked OK but the normal X-over that is on it now works better. It is still using the spring under design.
     
  12. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    What your asking for is a "T" style cross over. There are also split cross overs (what we all usually run) and "Y" cross overs. "T" and "Y" are less than optimal because they put excessive side loads on the tie rod AND they give significant bump steer due to excessive angle in the drag link. The split cross also has bump steer, but not as much due to flatter drag link, and all link forces are parallel to the links (compressiive/tensile not bending). Worse yet, the "Y" style changes toe-in when the suspension cycles. Best be is the standard cross over to the top of the passenger knuckle, or stick with the stock if you don't have problems steering when articulated.

    The stock 2WD version is also not good, particularly off road. For one, you have an extra wear item called an idler which is a significant weak link in late IFS rigs. The design is also inherently weaker (multiple points of failure AND side loads) even assuming the same material strength. For another, like the "Y" cross over, it changes toe when the suspension cycles. This is NOT something you want.
     

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