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To all you BIG hp/tq guys running manuals...

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Paxx, Nov 29, 2004.

  1. Paxx

    Paxx 1/2 ton status

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    Like say 400hp and up, how do you like your tranny with all that power? Is it difficult to shift without banging the driveline hard when accelerating? How is crawling? Really jerky or not too bad? Run out of revs too fast? Any tranny problems start up after handling the power for that long? Do you do mud? How is it? DO you have enough juice to start in 3rd gear so you don't have to switch? That would be sweet /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I will be getting a 500cid caddy engine in the spring and I would like to keep my 465 and just hydro it so convince me to keep it when I get the power. /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
     
  2. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Starting in 3rd even in 4 low ain't happening.

    I can bang gears pretty hard and usually if I'm beating on it like that I don't much care what I'm doing to the truck. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  3. joez

    joez 1/2 ton status

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    Why do you say it wouldnt happen? Hell, even my old 4banger Toyota would start in 3rd/4lo with no problems.
     
  4. Poohbair

    Poohbair 1/2 ton status

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    I wanted to go w/ the 500 Caddy too, but I run a 465 and am not willing to take it out for an Auto... but there is no flywheel for the Caddy motor, and no pilot bushing in the end of the crank. From what I understand to run the Caddy motor in front of the manual you have to remove the crank, have it machined for a pilot bushing, and then get a custom flywheel built for it...?
     
  5. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Why do you say it wouldnt happen? Hell, even my old 4banger Toyota would start in 3rd/4lo with no problems.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The Toyota 4 & 5 spds have very different ratio set ups than the 465. The difference in ratios from 2nd to 3rd is night and day.
     
  6. cybrfire

    cybrfire 1 ton status Vendor GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I wanted to go w/ the 500 Caddy too, but I run a 465 and am not willing to take it out for an Auto... but there is no flywheel for the Caddy motor, and no pilot bushing in the end of the crank. From what I understand to run the Caddy motor in front of the manual you have to remove the crank, have it machined for a pilot bushing, and then get a custom flywheel built for it...?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    500cid.com now makes a billet flywheel and pilot bushing for this application. There are some others that have done it and the trans aint the problem its the 10 spline coupler sleeve that became the weak link for this individual.32 spline direct input(no sleeve)will last as good as anything from the factory.

    A 500 caddy will do pretty well starting out in 3rd from what I understand. It's just the large torque numbers.
     
  7. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    I've run a roller 454 (est 425hp / 500tq) with a 465, I liked it but an auto was definitely more fun. The 4spd is slow in 3rd and 4th no matter what you do, the ratios are just wrong for speed. It was cool though because it gives the raw big power feel. Since I have 1 ton stuff I never really worried about banging the gears but, again, it not like you're going to be smoking the tires through 4th gear. I also found that even with the bigger motor shifting in the mud was still as difficult as with a smaller motor, once you push in the clutch the tires stop spinning - you can easily do a 1-2 shift but a 2-3 shift is not going to happen.

    For mud, I enjoyed my TH400 with a stall a lot more. Obviously, the auto will give you the ability to upshift without sacrificing wheel speed.

    As for jerking and such, I've found this to be a byproduct of poor gearing. When you match the proper gear to your tire size the input from the motor while crawling will become much smoother.

    If you run out of rpms you just need a bigger cam or more motor. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  8. Paxx

    Paxx 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    There are some others that have done it and the trans aint the problem its the 10 spline coupler sleeve that became the weak link for this individual.32 spline direct input(no sleeve)will last as good as anything from the factory.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    You seem to have done some research on this, do you have anymore info on it? I searched through the posts on 500cid but didn't find any info pertaining to the weak link you mentioned.

    And Tim, I started my truck in 4lo, 3rd gear just today out wheeling with my 355. It has maybe 385ft/lbs at the flywheel and I run 4.10 gears with 36's. My engine makes the tq higher up than the 500 and has nowhere near the tq peak. I think it would be quite easy to get a 500 going in 3rd.

    Mine wasn't pretty though /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif bogged out real bad lol. That's what got me to thinking how much better it would go with the 500 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  9. Paxx

    Paxx 1/2 ton status

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    I was playing with the gear calculators and if I run the 500 with my 465, a lowmax (if they ever come out!), and 5.13's with 42's, I will be the happiest guy on ck5

    100.87:1 crawl ratio, 100mph at 4140rpm and the gearing to go any speed in between /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

    With the torque peak so low it should pull fairly well when shifted from 2nd to 3rd.

    2nd - 4395rpm ~ 30mph
    3rd - 2092rpm ~ 30mph

    So if I shift at 4400rpm (might be a bit high for the 500 depending on cam) it should hit at about 2100rpm which would be right in the power range. Thats in high range obviously /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif

    Low range would have the same rpms but the speed would be 10mph instead.
     
  10. joez

    joez 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]

    The Toyota 4 & 5 spds have very different ratio set ups than the 465. The difference in ratios from 2nd to 3rd is night and day.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Uh, no it not night and day. At least not 3rd gear. 1st is closer to the 465 2nd.

    Toy W56 3rd gear: 1.38:1
    SM465 3rd gear: 1.57:1

    The toyota 1st gear is about the same as the SM465 2nd gear, and the Toyota 2nd gear is where there should be a gear in the SM465, between 2nd and third. 3rd gears are almost the same, and both have a 1:1 for 4th.
     
  11. GMCLegacy

    GMCLegacy 1/2 ton status

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    if you are trying to save shifting by starting out in 3rd, the 465 is not the transmission for you.
     
  12. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    The Toyota 4 & 5 spds have very different ratio set ups than the 465. The difference in ratios from 2nd to 3rd is night and day.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Uh, no it not night and day. At least not 3rd gear. 1st is closer to the 465 2nd.

    Toy W56 3rd gear: 1.38:1
    SM465 3rd gear: 1.57:1

    The toyota 1st gear is about the same as the SM465 2nd gear, and the Toyota 2nd gear is where there should be a gear in the SM465, between 2nd and third. 3rd gears are almost the same, and both have a 1:1 for 4th.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Based on your own description, you'd have to shift the Toy tranny from 1st directly to 3rd (skipping 2nd) to get the same feel as the 2nd to 3rd 465 tranny. Try it sometime, I'd say shifting the W56 from 2nd to 3rd will have a night and day feel (better) by comparison. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  13. Poohbair

    Poohbair 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I wanted to go w/ the 500 Caddy too, but I run a 465 and am not willing to take it out for an Auto... but there is no flywheel for the Caddy motor, and no pilot bushing in the end of the crank. From what I understand to run the Caddy motor in front of the manual you have to remove the crank, have it machined for a pilot bushing, and then get a custom flywheel built for it...?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    500cid.com now makes a billet flywheel and pilot bushing for this application. There are some others that have done it and the trans aint the problem its the 10 spline coupler sleeve that became the weak link for this individual.32 spline direct input(no sleeve)will last as good as anything from the factory.

    A 500 caddy will do pretty well starting out in 3rd from what I understand. It's just the large torque numbers.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Any idea what they charge for the flywheel/pilot bushing setup???
     
  14. joez

    joez 1/2 ton status

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    All im trying to compare is 3rd gears. I know they are not the same tranny's. Tim said that starting in 3rd gear 4lo with a big block isnt happening. I had no problem doing it with my old Toy, he shouldnt with a 500ci. caddy. Thats all im trying to get at.
     
  15. 75-K5

    75-K5 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    The Toyota 4 & 5 spds have very different ratio set ups than the 465. The difference in ratios from 2nd to 3rd is night and day.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Uh, no it not night and day. At least not 3rd gear. 1st is closer to the 465 2nd.

    Toy W56 3rd gear: 1.38:1
    SM465 3rd gear: 1.57:1

    The toyota 1st gear is about the same as the SM465 2nd gear, and the Toyota 2nd gear is where there should be a gear in the SM465, between 2nd and third. 3rd gears are almost the same, and both have a 1:1 for 4th.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think he meant in a sm465 shifting from 2nd to 3rd is night and day.
     
  16. Paxx

    Paxx 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    if you are trying to save shifting by starting out in 3rd, the 465 is not the transmission for you.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ha ha no I'm not really, like I said above though I tried it in my truck today and thought "how much easier would this be with a 500" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The thought of that much power just makes me smile
     
  17. Paxx

    Paxx 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]

    Any idea what they charge for the flywheel/pilot bushing setup???

    [/ QUOTE ]

    flywheel, billet steel ~ $389
    For use with 10.5" or 11" clutches. SFI drag race approved.

    I'll see what I can find for the pilot bushing /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  18. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    Ok, I see your point now. Yeah, I was talking about the 2-3 shift as opposed to actually starting out in 3rd. /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif
     
  19. Paxx

    Paxx 1/2 ton status

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    hmm, nothing on the pilot bushing. Could contact them for the info I suppose. If anyone finds it let me know /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  20. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Are you guys talking about starting out in 3rd in 4lo? the tcase in a yota is going to be a lot lower than a 205 correct?
     

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