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Told you so

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Greenblazer-AZ, May 18, 2002.

  1. Greenblazer-AZ

    Greenblazer-AZ 1/2 ton status

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    Well has anyone been paying attention to the news? Our government was warned before 9-11! If you look at who benifited the most from this terrible event, you might understand why you shouldn't trust the government. THEY LIE! George W. Bush prior to 9-11 was the president that stole the election to many, but his approval ratings went through the roof afterwards.

    The "Patriot Act" would never have seen the light of day prior to 9-11, but it passed almost unanamously(sp?). Talk about using the Constitution for toilet paper, The "Patriot Act" is about as UN-PATRIOTIC as you can get.

    Wake up, and smell the corruption people. Alternative news sources were talking about this months ago. The regular (read :government controlled) media is just now bringing it out because too many people found out and to continue to cover it up would make it too obvious that they were hiding something.

    Bush is using the politically biased card to cover his a$$. The government knew this was going to happen and they let it happen because it allowed them to push forward the police state agenda.

    The chips are already being installed and soon we will have to have ID cards with our fingerprints and other information. Freedom and Privacy will soon be a thing of the past. Most of you probably think I'm a wacko, and you probably won't even notice when your grandkids get chipped at birth.

    Once everyone is chipped the government will know where everyone that owns a gun is at, and when they decide it's time to take them they'll know right where to look.
     
  2. sapper

    sapper 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    terrorist have been hi jacking planes for decades. are you saying that you knew they were going to use the plane for a missle? as far as i know it was the first time in history that something like this happened. as far as a national id card what can be so bad about that? mayby i'm wierd but since i was 10 years old i have had military id as a dependant and active duty. kids being 'chiped' at birth prolly wont happen without another civil war first. but if it did what do you have to hide that the goverment would find out?? if you think this country is so messed up why dont you just leave?
     
  3. The_Sandman_454

    The_Sandman_454 1/2 ton status

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    I do not like the idea of a national id card for legal residents. I do not agree with that little magnetic strip some driver licenses are getting. As you can see from the past anything the government or others can abuse they will. So they shouldn't be given the chance.

    I do not blame the administration for letting 9-11 happen because they did not. The airlines did. Actually all gun control advocates did in a way. How would you hijack a plane with a knife if it's got a few people with firearms? I do not feel safe anywhere you're *not allowed* to have a weapon. Because the underhanded people always find a way to get a weapon. Look at how easy it is to smuggle drugs in here. Weapons are easier than that...

    I put 100% of the blame on the airlines. If you are going to make everybody leave anything they could possibly defend themselves with off the plane, you sure as hell had better *ensure* that nobody can get any weapons on board and sure better make damn sure you hire some good security guards to ensure it. They did not, they went low bidder and look what it bought them. A few planes and a few thousand lives. Security is a farce. It's not possible. Now I know some will say "i don't want drunk people with guns on a plane". To that I say fine remove the alcohol from the planes and be done with it. I'd rather be able to secure my own little bit of real estate where ever I go rather than be drunk. At most it'll be a little inconvenience and at least maybe it'll help save some lives... Just what we need drunk people anywhere in a small confined space...

    Just my opinion though.

    I do still believe in the government, I don't believe that adequate info had gotten to Bush and I do believe he was demanding more information. However it is now his responsibility to return the FBI, CIA, and other agencies to being completely functional again.
     
  4. Djroffroad

    Djroffroad 1/2 ton status

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    Talk about a paronoid pot head.

    Screaming conspiracy theories like this only hurts the cause you seem to fight so hard for.

    To even suggest any form of our government would let such a tragity unfold just to better them selves or push for their own agenda is rediculous.

    Smoke another bowl and forget you heard anything.
     
  5. Greenblazer-AZ

    Greenblazer-AZ 1/2 ton status

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    Yeah, That's exactly the kind of response I expected, but people like you fail to look at the whole picture, because you don't have it fed to you on the evening news. BTW I don't smoke pot.
     
  6. Djroffroad

    Djroffroad 1/2 ton status

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    There is a reason they call it "alternative news scources".
    I'm just happy our Presidential election system brought the right man to office. I would hate to find out how Gore would have delt with it.

    Bush gained in popularity because America looked at the President wondering what his reaction would be, and he did exactly what America thought he should. And we where releived that he was the one in office.

    An overwhelming percentage of Americans believe we need changes in the wake of 9-11. Me included. The tuff question is...
    What changes?
    Are you willing to give up anything for a little more home land security?
    Is there anything we can do to that will prevent another terrorist attack?

    Something has to happen, but this IS still America. If you want to protect your rights, VOTE!!! Elect the right people, and vote on the issues.

    I don't think we can prevent another attack. But we can make sure we don't loose our freedom because of it.

    There is someone screaming conspiracy at every turn throughout history. Don't believe every thing you hear. Especially if they can't even get a "real" journalist job.
     
  7. AGM73k5

    AGM73k5 1/2 ton status

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    Bush's administration on gun control:
    http://www.lp.org/press/archive.php? function=view&record=580

    Bush's administration on pilots being armed:
    http://www.lp.org/press/archive.php?function=view&record=579

    Even after 9-11 Bush doesn't want armed pilots. He says that the second amedment protects the right of individuals to bear arms but he still wants to enforce all kinds of gun control laws.

    I tend to think that the CIA, FBI, Clinton, and Bush all dropped the ball on this one. I don't know that I, or anyone else, could've done better. Although if Odigo had told everyone about the threat they received maybe the towers could've been saved. I am glad Cheney gave the order to shoot down 93, I think that took some courage and leadership. If airline security was better, on a few airlines, that's all I could see doing it pre 9-11, would people fly those airlines? The waits would be longer and tickets more expensive, I think it took 9-11 for people to be concerned about their security. You're right on about security though, it's not possible to be totally secure. At this point I won't trust any government over a state level. After that they've got too much money and power, and all they seem to do is make more money and more power for themselves.
    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


    Just what we need drunk people anywhere in a small confined space...


    <hr></blockquote>
    This bring to mind drunk people in telephone booths for anyone else?

    As for Bush overall, all the things I like about conservatives and Republicans he doesn't do. In regards to popularity, I thought most war presidents had high poll numbers....

    National ID cards? Is there somewhere in the Constitution that grants that power to government? I honestly don't know. Although if it's not in the Constitution I'm probably opposed to it /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html &lt;- The constitution

    As for media sources:
    http://michaelmoore.com/healthcare/ &lt;-Michael Moore talking about how NBC made him lie.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&amp;u=/nyt/20020429/bs_nyt/at_fox_news__the_colonel_who_wasn_t&amp;printer=1 &lt;- fox relied on military counsel from a phony

    The leading news sources have probably all made similar mistakes or questionable decisions. I try to get my news from a variety of sources local, national, and international. Some of that includes "alternative" news sites, who have been saying for months, what the major networks seem to have just discovered.

    Anyone got any ideas about the coup in Venezuala? I think someone on the federal level was backing them. But, we probably won't know until those FOIA requests get granted years down the road.

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


    If you want to protect your rights, VOTE!!! Elect the right people, and vote on the issues.


    <hr></blockquote>

    I don't think it's that easy. I shouldn't have to vote to protect my rights, that's not American. My rights are clearly explained in the Constitution. If I have to vote to keep them then we've no longer got freedom, we've got mob rule. If 51% can vote to take rights from 49% that's not the America I want to live in, and I don't think it's what the Constitution intended.

    I think that focusing on America, not on the rest of the world, may help cut down on future attacks. People may still hate us, but we won't be giving them any new reasons /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

    The "News" is a huge industry with large corporate players who have their hands in all kinds of businesses. If being a real journalist means spiking stories, manipulating facts, and downplaying things that might cost you ratings then I'll take alternative sources everytime.
     
  8. Djroffroad

    Djroffroad 1/2 ton status

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    When our founding fathers wrote the constitution, they made sure we have free elections also. They knew this was the best way to uphold the constitution. Not voting allows the ones in power to do as they please. If we don't like what a politician is doing, we have the power to fire him. When some idiot wants to put gun control to a vote, we can say no.
    So yes, voting does protect our rights.

    Yes the goverment has alot of power, so we should watch them closely. But remember, not everything is a conspiracy.
     
  9. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    Yeah Yeah! Relax Dude. You know how many threats per day our goverment gets. Remember the one from a couple years ago when Osama an his croonies said they were gonna blow up a dozen jets over the Pacific. What I'm getting at if our goverment reacted on every threat we would be in total lock down. Just chill out take a picknic or something is our goverment so bad? We are not forced to wear beards and study the koran.
     
  10. Prembird

    Prembird 1/2 ton status

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    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    Bush is using the politically biased card to cover his a$$. The government knew this was going to happen and they let it happen because it allowed them to push forward the police state agenda

    <hr></blockquote>

    Lets see.. there is a flaw in your logic on this one.. According to many different news sources...The FBI and CIA did report that there was a chance that supposed terriosts where using american airline training facilities to get pilot licences... BUT out of every person named in these meno's only one was involved in 9-11... And the reason he was mentioned in it had nothing to do with terriosts activities.. The field person put his name in the memo because he was wondering how the FAA could give such a horriable pilot a license..Also did your "alternative" news sources also happen to mention that the sudanies (spelling?) government offered Clinton, osman bin laden on a silver plater... Clinton decided that he didnt want to get involved in any of it and refused there offer.. Now you want to talk about someone that could have done something... You need to look at Clinton.. He has done more damage to the U.S. then any other country could ever do...

    There is alot more to the story then what your are getting.. If you really want to be informed then you need to check out every news outlet there is out there... The major news companies are biased, but they have a liberal agenda.. If they would have known anything that Bush might have done wrong then they would be shouting from the roof tops...

    As for those that think Bush stole the election... Well look how the laws are writen, how the political systems works.. Now whats funny is this.. over 75 percent that said he was an il-legitamite president where saying that they are glad that gore did not win... Hell even gore said he is glad he didnt win...
    Now looking at everything you have said and posted on these subjects.. being anti-government and all... Maybe then you should consider moving somewhere else.. or take an active part in it let others know all the facts about something, get out and vote, even go far enough to run in some local elections... These things will make change... Spouting off half informed will do nothing but make the person spouting look like a nut...
    As for chipping everyone.. that will never happen... There are to miltia's groups out there that are looking out for our best intrests to let the happen.. And no im not talking about the radical ones that go off half cocked all the time... Im taking about everyday people that belong to a group that believe in the constitution and will die before they let something like that happen...
    Now some un-informed citizens might elect to get the chip on there own free will.. well that is totally up to them...
     
  11. AGM73k5

    AGM73k5 1/2 ton status

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    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


    When our founding fathers wrote the constitution, they made sure we have free elections also. They knew this was the best way to uphold the constitution. Not voting allows the ones in power to do as they please. If we don't like what a politician is doing, we have the power to fire him. When some idiot wants to put gun control to a vote, we can say no.
    So yes, voting does protect our rights.

    Yes the goverment has alot of power, so we should watch them closely. But remember, not everything is a conspiracy.


    <hr></blockquote>

    Voting can protect your rights. But you shouldn't have to vote to protect them. If you have to vote to protect your rights then something has failed. Voting only protects your rights if you can get 51% of the voters to agree with you. That is why the Constitution exists, to prevent people from using the democratic system to usurp the rights of the individual. Every year people get elected via promises of expanding government power.

    I'm not saying that American democracy is inherently bad. Only that the scope of our democracy should be much more limited. No matter how you want to vote your vote shouldn't be able to curtail my rights. If you can vote to curtail my rights then why should I go to the ballot box every year only to watch you take more of my rights. That is the failure of America. Voting only works when you're in the majority, and right now the majority doesn't care for the Constitution. Many that pretend to care about it only interpret it to their own benefit, rather than the benefit of all.

    conspiracy:
    n 1: a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act [syn: confederacy] 2: a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot) [syn: cabal] 3: a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose [syn: confederacy]

    If the Constitution is the basis of law in this country, and it certainly is supposed to be for the Federal government, then everytime a vote is held that goes against the Constitution a conspiracy of lawmakers has occured. Everytime the federal government goes beyond what it's authorized to do, a conspiracy has occured. Sometimes they are open about the conspiracies and tell the public, via the major news media what they're doing, other times they don't. Even when they do, and even if they are voted into power again, that doesn't mean that they are any less guilty of conspiracy. 51% can conspire against the Constitution, their majority doesn't make it legal.

    Human experimentation:
    http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/rockrep.cfm
    http://www.healthnewsnet.com/humanexperiments.html

    Evidence mishandling:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/03/19/national/main504062.shtml

    Preventing people from knowing what really happens (What good is voting if you can't know what people have done while in office?):
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&amp;node=&amp;contentId=A20731-2001Oct31&amp;notFound=true

    http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20020225/3890335s.htm

    http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=uspolitics_news.ht&amp;s=APCz2EBapQnVzaCB0

    http://www.salon.com/health/feature/2000/11/02/germ_warfare/index.html

    That doesn't include the treaties etc. signed that restrict sovereignty and the Constitution. I tried to choose links that you might respect, rather than "alternative news sources".

    -Aaron
     
  12. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    your voting system is a farce
    both the Ass and the Rhino have been bought and paid for since long before any of us were born.
    the differences are purely cosmetic and the majority of the citizens seem to know that by the apathy at the polling stations
     
  13. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I'm gonna stir up the pot (no pun intended here! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif) and see what everyone has to say about this:

    What if Bush had lost the election and Gore was the president?
    Where would we be at right now with Gore as the prez? /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif
     
  14. AGM73k5

    AGM73k5 1/2 ton status

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    I may be alone in this, but I think it'd be about the same. I don't see Gore as very liberal, I don't see Bush as very conservative. They talk about different things, but their actions would probably be similar.

    -Aaron
     
  15. ChevyHuny

    ChevyHuny 1/2 ton status

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    Ok get real...
    Bush didnt know they were going to do this. There are terrorist threats every day. And maybe you should go back and check things becuase bush did not steal the election. Just becuase Gore is a whinny ass muther and had to have things counted a billion times hoping it would change doesnt make bush an election stealer.

    Paranoid pot head is right.
    Ok kids, the picture you see on GreenBlazers post pic is drugs.
    Greenblazers post is what drugs do to your brain.
     
  16. ChevyHuny

    ChevyHuny 1/2 ton status

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    {quote]What if Bush had lost the election and Gore was the president?
    Where would we be at right now with Gore as the prez?


    <hr></blockquote>

    Thats a scary thought!!!!!!
     
  17. riz

    riz 3/4 ton status

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    <font color=blue> First thing Gore would have done was wizzed in his airbrushed pants !
     
  18. riz

    riz 3/4 ton status

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    <font color=blue> Drop the pot leaf then !
     
  19. Corey 78K5

    Corey 78K5 1 ton status

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    Allan,
    Tell ya what Bud (LOL) all you have to do is watch the final epasode of the X-Files cause they are gonna explain that whole goverment consperacy thingy for you and then you'll really know the truth.
     
  20. Djroffroad

    Djroffroad 1/2 ton status

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    LOL...
    I was thinking X-files too!!
     

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