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Tuned Port

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Hossbaby50, Sep 29, 2003.

  1. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    I bought a Tune Port Injection system yesterday. Who here has done the swap? I am switching carb to TPI. I have some general questions. I bought the system complete (minus the motor). Computer, harness (stock & painless), intake, injectors, sensors, etc.

    How long should the swap take?

    What parts do I need? (I know I need a fuel tank from 87+)

    Tips and insite into this swap. Any help and guidence is appreciated. I have searched here and am going to start reading at some of the other websites tonight. Thanks

    Harley
     
  2. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    You left out the "D". It's Tuned Port Injection. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    I've got one sitting on top of a 383. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif For some cheap and easy "upgrade" type of stuff, the TPIS Performance book from www.tpis.com is good. It shows you how to modify the plenum, intake base, etc. for better airflow.

    You don't have to use a later model tank. I'm using the stock '75 tank and a Bosch external fuel pump from a Jaguar V-12 application. I mounted the pump inside the frame rail, back near the tank. The only thing is that without a baffled tank you have to keep plenty of gas in the tank so that the fuel pump doesn't just suck air on steep hills. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    You have to replumb your entire fuel system. The factory stuff on a carb setup is designed for gas to get sucked through it. With TPI the fuel supply line will be constantly pressurized at 37-45 PSI. TPI also uses a fuel return line that bleeds excess fuel back to the fuel tank, so you may need to run a line for that as well. My '75 didn't have a return line, so I had to plumb one and also weld a new fitting into the sending unit plate (not while attached to the tank, obviously!).

    My swap took a VERY long time, but I did it in 1989, long before there was much info available on how to do it. I did a complete engine swap, plumbed in the fuel, and figured out on my own how to adapt an '87 Corvette engine harness into a '75 K5 harness.
     
  3. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    I can plumb my return line with standard rubber fuel line though can't I? I know it is not optimal, but I will replumb the hardline later. Return pressure is only 5 PSI or so right? Also my stock steel lines won't handle the necessary PSI, or will it not handle the extra volume?

    I already have some high pressure rubber fuel line that I am going to replace any standard pressure line with that isn't metal.

    With the stock fuel pump on the block, do I just put a aftermarket blockoff plate over it and call it good?

    Another question I had was the whole VSS issue. How do I get VSS to work on my truck so the TPI will work correctly. I read that it will work without the VSS, but it doesn't run up to its full potential. Thanks

    Harley
     
  4. Beast388

    Beast388 1/2 ton status

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    PM CK5 user BobK. He has TPI on his 1st Gen (that is why I remember). IIRC, he bought a kit, ready to bolt on. He has a good picture album showing the steps to install too. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  5. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    I plumbed my return line with mostly steel line. I didn't want to do it twice. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Make sure that any fuel line that you use is rated for fuel injection pressures. Anywhere I needed to convert between steel and rubber, I used barbed compression fittings and double hose clamps, just to be sure it wouldn't leak. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

    For the old fuel pump, yes, just yank off the pump, remove the pump pushrod and seal up the hole. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    Several places sell VSS generators that screw onto your t-case and then the speedo cable screws into the generator. Check with www.howellefi.com and www.jagsthatrun.com for starters. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  6. kustom71

    kustom71 1/2 ton status

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    Im also doing this right now and it seems like its taking 4ever!!!All the small things you dont realize you need cost alot of dough.I just ordered what is hopefully the last things i need a throttle cable(lokar)cause the camaro one doesnt work in the firewall and the blazer one is to short.an air filter that goes right on the throttle body cause im tired of tring to build the damn cold air tube and a detent cable again blazer one is to short so i need a camaro one!
    Good luck!Its not the easiest thing i have done but will be good when done.let me know if you need any info!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  7. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    I just wandered through a junkyard until I found a throttle cable of the right length. I don't even remember what the heck I took if off of now. That was a lot of years ago. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    For the air intake I used a setup from a GTA Trans Am.

    I'm running a Turbo 400, so didn't have a detent cable to deal with. But with a 700R4 then a TV cable from a TPI car will probably be required.
     
  8. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    The nature of truck projects is that if you plumb the return in rubber you won't change it to steel until the rubber starts leaking. Which will happen exactly 16.675934 miles East of BFE. If you use good quality EFI hose it'll happen to the guy you sell it to. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Those going to SEFI on EBs use an accumulator tank because the EB tanks have the same lack of good baffling. I know it's a Bronco site but take a look at the accumulators at the bottom of the page. That general game plan is to use a carb type pusher electric pump at the tank to feed the accumulator, and then draw out of the accumulator to feed the high pressure pump. Since the accumulator wants to be mounted vertically, it & the HP pump usually end up in the engine bay somewhere.

    For the return line you can drill & tap the filler neck for an NPT fitting near the top. You may need to solder a short piece of tube into the fitting to direct the returned fuel down the filler neck. Be careful of where the station's filler nozzle needs to go in placing the hole.
     
  9. BobK

    BobK 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Tune Port

    I did my conversion Jan.2001.No real problems since.
    [​IMG]
    I used 5/16th steel brake line for a return and ran it down the drivers side frame rail.
    [​IMG]

    I made a inline return port that get's spliced into the gass filler hose.I got the idea from a product I saw in a Summit Racing mag.
    [​IMG]

    I plumbed the new Electric fuel pump and filter inline useing the stock 3/8ths fuel feed line.I also used my stock Blazer tank.I've had NO problems with fuel starvation since the TPI install.
    The pump was set as low as possible on the passenger frame rail to aid siphening the fuel from the tank.
    [​IMG]

    Really,the fuel feed and return was the most complicated part of the install.

    I used fuel injected rated rubber lines where I had too but the majority of the feed and return lines are steel.

    You can see my TPI install
    HERE

    Good luck with yours.
    /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  10. earl87gta

    earl87gta 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Tune Port

    For you guys having problems I can make it esyer on you but you will have to spend some $$$ 250 to be exact you can send your wireing harnes to fueil injection speciolties and they will remove all the egr stuff and make it a three wire hook up plus replace any conectors that are bad. It sounds like a lot but if you are using a mass air set up go to GM and price the conector for the burn off and power relay for the mass air flow senser they are 45 a pice and their is three of those connectors on the harrnes. any way I also have all the gm books on these. My 68 bird has a tpi in it my 87 gta and I have one that is ging in the blazer this winter. For the return line on the fuel summit and jegs has the kit that replaces the filler neck it only like $25 it work it so you dont have the hassel of building it. If you need any info or help just pm me and I will do what I can to help. I love TPI engines I need topost pics of my engine if you guys like toi engines you will love mine. I also have some info on using vortec heads with them I use to build a manifold for this until edlbrock started to do it I cant compete with them. But uf you have a tpi and want to use those heads I will tell you how to do it.
    Earl
     
  11. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    My truck is currently broken. I am having carb and or ignition issues (I think both). I was planning on fixing this ASAP, but not that I have the TPI system I am thinking I am just going to spend the money on the TPI and get it installed ASAP. I don't see the point in spending more money on the carb when TPI is going to go in in 3 months. Why not do it now. I have more questions about this too.

    I know you don't need VSS to make TPI run, but how bad will it run without the VSS?

    Can I run the MAF sensor directly on the throttle body and then run a K&N open element on the front of the sensor?

    Do I need a TPS with a MAF system and if so how do I go about installing it?

    I currently have dual exhaust and was wondering about oxygen sensor placement with true duals.

    Computer placement. Inside the cab or in the engine bay? I am assuming incab is best.

    I talked with Rob (theRobzilla) about TPI today and he was telling me I should probably convert over to a speed density system. I know this will cost more $ and problems in the short term but would like to do it eventually. I really need to get my truck running ASAP since it has been broken with one thing or another for 3+ months now. Can I run the MAF system for now without the VSS to get it going? How do I protect the MAF's "hot wire" from damage?

    Who is running the MAF system and have you had problems with it? Was it the "hot wire?" Thanks

    Harley
     
  12. earl87gta

    earl87gta 1/2 ton status

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    Im kind of short on time so I will adress the quick stuf MAS air speed density comes down to how much engine for a more radical engine speed density is the way to go if stock or mild cam mass air will be fine.Thir is also a way to convert to a SD sytem later the mass air sensor wire becomes the map sensor wire and you hace to chane the placement of the wires to the Com. and change COM I have the diagram for the wiring convertion I can send you and you can always change over to SD later. get a tpi out of a 86 to 89 and no VSS to worry abought. the TPS is on the side of the TB If you would like I willl send you a pic tomarrow. O2 sensor pic a header colector and weld a bung in it mine is on the driver side. best place to put the Comp. is in a amo can in the cab it water tite that way. best way to pertect the MASS air sensor is do not remove the screens and use a good air filter. I do not recomend puting the MAS then a air filter you will get better performance if you are not shuving hot air from your rateator in the engine try to route it a way some place you can get cooler air. If you never in water up to the hood I would say cut a hole threw the cor suport on witch ever side the baterry isnt in the way of and put the fillter in front of it giving you cold incoming air and sort of a ram air afect or use a snorkle.
    Hope this help. PM me any time and I can help you out I have a few TPI systems laying around and have done almost every thing you can do to them even use to burn my own chips.
    Earl
     
  13. beater74

    beater74 1/2 ton status

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    do any of you guys have a good source for air intake tubeing? i'm fixen to install my TPI and am searching for a good way to plumb up a fresh air intake. such as 90 deg elbow's and an adapter to go from the TB to 4"or3" tube and such

    i understand some T/A have a good filter housing but they are hard to come by, do you have any other ideas.

    i have though about using and ammo can and putting a cone filter inside and using this as the housing, but coming up with the proper tubing has become and issue.
     
  14. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    My intake is setup just as you describe. I think I got the parts from an '89 GTA. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif The folks at www.jagsthatrun.com may be able to hook you up with intake plumbing, as they specialize in TPI swaps.
     
  15. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I know you don't need VSS to make TPI run, but how bad will it run without the VSS?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    It will run, but not perfectly. It will set the Check Engine light within a mile or so of driving. I'm not certain if this parameter causes it to go into Limp Home mode though.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Can I run the MAF sensor directly on the throttle body and then run a K&N open element on the front of the sensor?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not sure if you'll have enough room between the throttle body and the radiator. You'd need the bellows from a 'vette or Camaro to go straight forward like that, and they are 8-12 inches long.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Do I need a TPS with a MAF system and if so how do I go about installing it?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yes. It should already be there. Look at the throttle body closely. The TPS is mounted off to one side, with a 3 wire connector going to it.

    [ QUOTE ]
    I currently have dual exhaust and was wondering about oxygen sensor placement with true duals.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    O2 sensor can go into either side, as close to the engine as possible, after all 4 tubes come together. The wiring on mine was setup for the drivers side. With long tube headers, it's possible that the O2 sensor won't stay hot enough to work properly. But that's a "wait and see" thing. If it keeps setting the check engine light then you'll have to look into changing over to a 3-wire, heated O2 sensor.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Computer placement. Inside the cab or in the engine bay? I am assuming incab is best.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    In cab is the only option. The ECM's from that era are not weather proof.

    [ QUOTE ]
    I talked with Rob (theRobzilla) about TPI today and he was telling me I should probably convert over to a speed density system. I know this will cost more $ and problems in the short term but would like to do it eventually. I really need to get my truck running ASAP since it has been broken with one thing or another for 3+ months now. Can I run the MAF system for now without the VSS to get it going? How do I protect the MAF's "hot wire" from damage?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Mine is MAF. MAF seems to be much more forgiving of cam swaps, etc., as it actually measures the amount of air entering the engine at any given moment, in grams per second. But replacement MAF's are big bucks... If the time comes to replace it, it's probably about the same price to covert to the speed density setup and have a custom prom burned. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif


    [ QUOTE ]
    Who is running the MAF system and have you had problems with it? Was it the "hot wire?" Thanks

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Mine doesn't have a lot of miles on it, but it's holding up so far.
     
  16. 87GMCJimmy

    87GMCJimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Harley,
    You've pointed out some of the parts that I might still have. I know the VSS box is still under the dash and your welcome to it if it helps. I'll look for the throttle cable and TV cable but might have pitched them at some point.

    I would definietly go hard lines from the get go for the fuel return. Why plan on doing it 2x.

    You need the TPS and it should still be bolted to the throttle body.

    I ran the system for over a year with no problems with the MAF. Also it will better adjust to different engines/modifications without burning a new chip.

    Anyway time to get to work.
    Mike

    Mike
     
  17. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    I thought about that TPS questoin about 5 minutes after I posted and remembered it was on the TB. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I also forgot to mention that I was going to turn a 90 degree elbow after the MAF and run the K&N laterally not straight ahead toward the radiator. It soulds like I need to build custom setup to rehook my tubing back to the OE air intake on the core support.

    My main concern though is getting this thing running and emissions ready. I also need to have it running and get some road miles on it because I have elk season at the end of November and what good hunter doesn't need his built 4x4 to go to the woods. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I run a 700R4 trans I think I saw above or mentioned somewhere else that you need the TV cable from a firbird or camaro with TPI to get the right length for it. Is this right?

    What is a good external fuel pump for a good price for my TPI swap? Sould I use an aftermarket from someone like Holley or Edelbrock? Or is there a pump that works better that was OE on something else? Thanks a lot everyone for the help here

    Harley
     
  18. earl87gta

    earl87gta 1/2 ton status

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    do you have a intanke fuel pump if you do you may be able to get the sending unit and pump from a Fbody and use it in you tank that would solve the fuel pmp and return line problem. if not you can alway get a hole gass tank form any F-body car anf kut the sending unit pump usambly out and welld it in the top of your tank. If you cave a system with VSS I wouldnt not use it it will be limp home mode all the time and wont runn verry well you can buy the kit to use it from jegs for 200 but buy that time you could just buy a 86 threw 89 that doesnt have it any way. You may want to just send it to fuelinjection speclties and havr them convert it to a off roud system it will be a 3 wire hook up when you get it back the egr stuff will be gone and for a little extra cash they will instal the hot o2 sensor. Then you can have a chip burnt and have the egr shut off if it bothers you having the egr codes in the ECM.
    Earl
     
  19. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    you could just buy a 86 threw 89 that doesnt have it any way.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    What applications in those years didn't have VSS? My setup is from an '87 'vette and it does have VSS.

    I wouldn't do away with EGR on a street driven rig. It really helps prevent detonation at part throttle. I'd much rather have a little bit of exhaust gas in the intake stream than have the ECM pulling out timing. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  20. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    My system is from a 87 & 88 year Firebird. So I don't have VSS? I will have to look at the wiring harness. I also have a painless wiring harness for it and it was previously run on a K5 with 350 so I think that fact will help me with the install.

    Any recommendation on external fuel pump? I think to begin with I am going to run my 85 tank and splice the return line into the fuel filler. I am pretty religious about not going below a 1/4 tank of gas on the street, let alone on the trail. I will change to a baffled tank when the cash allows though.

    One last question. This is going on a motor with the pre-87 heads. I know you have to do a little grinding on a couple of bolt holes. How much, which ones, and does anyone have pics?

    Harley
     

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