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Turbo Design/Exhaust Header Theory & Idea

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by OrangeCrushK10, Nov 10, 2005.

  1. OrangeCrushK10

    OrangeCrushK10 1/2 ton status

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    This thought doesn't directly have to do with K5's directly, but could apply if you wanted it to...

    -=Background Story=-

    SO! Here I am driving down the road and thinking of buying a cheap old anything-I-can-find-under-$600 motorcycle. This would probably end up being an old 2 or 4 cyl Japanese bike. But I would like something kinda unique. So the idea pops into my head that I could grab a turbo off of a Saab from a junkyard and fab it onto the bike. A small turbo for a car, but should be pretty good for a motorcycle. Seems easy enough, just basically fab up a new exhaust with one pipe, route it through the turbo and do some fabbing on the intake to hook it up through the turbo. Possibly add some cooling fins to the turbo and an intercooler infront of the frame behind the forks. Pretty easy.

    The hardest part would be the Turbo Exhaust manifold, which still wouldn't be too hard if you didn't mind it being stupid simple and ugly.


    -=The Idea=-

    All this gets me thinking about Turbo Exhaust manifolds in general.

    To me they seem VERY badly designed. Just a straight, log-type, all into one manifold. The flow characteristics must be a nightmare. The flow must be intermittent due to some of the cyl's being close and some far, not to mention the backpressure caused by it all dumping into one pipe.

    Now, if my idea on headers is correct they are designed so that all the pipes are of equal length so that the exhaust from one cyl wont interfere with the exhaust of another cyl due to the seperat firing order. Nice smooth exhaust, low backpressure.

    So, why don't they do this with Turbo's?! It seems to be it would be greatly more effecient if it were constantly getting the same amount of pressure at a given rpm than it getting bursts. Not to mention the fact that the cyl's would no longer be fighting with eachother from the exhaust pressure.

    It wouldn't be hard, just make a shorty type header and at the collector fab an adapter for the turbo.

    -=My Problem=-

    But I make this sound a bit easier than it truely is. If you know how Exhaust headers work then you know that the specific length of the pipes matters due to the resonance of the exhaust. Which is why some headers work better than others.

    If I remember correctly my Carburetors & Intake Manifolds book touches on resonating properties, but just briefly.

    Does anybody know more about resonating properties and how to calculate them?

    Also, what about my idea in general? Am I thinking correctly or is there a specific reason that companies use the super-bad flow manifolds?



    Or do I just have WAY too much time on my hands and am suicidal for wanting to turbo a motorcycle? :D
     
  2. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Many of the REAL high performance Ricers run equal length tubular turbo headers. The problem with them is that a turbo creates a good deal of heat between the cylinder head and it. Many of the turbo setups use cast iron simple manifolds because they hold up well to that abuse.
     
  3. Robert79K5

    Robert79K5 1/2 ton status

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    Saw a Harley at the dealer with a turbo a few years ago. Some kind of add on package.

    For whatever reason they never caught on.

    That being said I hope you do it and take lots of pics.
     
  4. OrangeCrushK10

    OrangeCrushK10 1/2 ton status

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    It would be pretty damned funny to pull up to a stop light in an old beater bike, pick a race with a crotch rocket, and completely burn him. :haha:

    I think I'll do it. But it'll definetly be a ways away. I still need to buy a decent welder, plasma cutter and tube bender. Then practice my welding some...

    Wonder if I could sell turbo kits for motorcycles? I know a few companies di it, but they're not incredibly popular...


    I'm bound and determined to die by smearing myself doing something outrageous in a vehicle...
     
  5. TSGB

    TSGB 1 ton status

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    I'd be willing to attempt the longest motorcycle jump in the world that ends fatally, if I could do it at top speed on a Dodge Tomahawk.
     
  6. OrangeCrushK10

    OrangeCrushK10 1/2 ton status

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    Jumping it? Hell, you'd probably die just from gunning the thing and riding it out to it's 400+ mph estimated top speed.

    I always wondered what it'd be like to go from 0-60 in 2 seconds....
     
  7. wasted wages

    wasted wages 3/4 ton status

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    Once you start adding boost to an engine, all of the theory behind natural aspiration goes right out the window. :doah:

    I would be more concerned with fuel delivery,compression ratio and detonation and timing issues more than anything else. ;)
     
  8. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I'd also bet that even though it sa small turbo it won't spool well, make great boost,a nd that overall things will be bad. I'd really bet you won't make much more power with it(if you can get passed detonation and fuel issues).
     
  9. OrangeCrushK10

    OrangeCrushK10 1/2 ton status

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    Yeah, I know quite a bit about forced induction and the inherent problems caused by it. Compression/detonation, etc. If I were serious about it I'd probably do a much better job, But were talking a $600 or less motorcycle and a $35 junkyard turbo here. I'm not gonna cry if I kill it.

    Just toying with the idea.

    In reality I'd want a twin turbo setup due to the motorcycles high rpm limit. A lot of bikes also run high compression so I'd also have to have a bunch of parts custom made for this engine to add strength and reduce compression. Also, due to the added heat I'd want a water cooled engine instead of an air cooled.

    But that is getting pretty deep into it and no longer worth putting it on some junker bike.
     
  10. OrangeCrushK10

    OrangeCrushK10 1/2 ton status

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    On thinking about it I will probably make the bike from scratch. Probably use a 4cyl from a car. Possibly one of those cut in half small blocks I see in midgets and sprint cars....

    But it'd give me much more adaptability over the project... I need to buy a CAD program and start designing...
     
  11. surpip

    surpip 1 ton status

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    bike+turbo+turning at high speed=boost kicks in at wrong time and spins rear tire=no traction and painfull splat.

    that beeing said they make turbo kits for hyabusas, and most of the liter bikes
    scary fast
     
  12. OrangeCrushK10

    OrangeCrushK10 1/2 ton status

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    Sweet.... I could definetly kill myself on that........ kinda makes me wish I knew more about crotch rockets. I remember seeing a hayabusa for sale somewhere. I knew they were special, but not that special...
     
  13. 79k20350

    79k20350 3/4 ton status

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    they do make turbo headers, the problem is the weight on the header itself makes them prone to warping and deforming
     
  14. OrangeCrushK10

    OrangeCrushK10 1/2 ton status

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    Ohhhhh, that's something I wouldn't have thought of! I know about the heat issues, but I never thought about all that added weight.
     
  15. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    2 cylinder small block...

    I saw a show on "Discovery" about Sturgis,and all the custom bikes there..One guy had a bike with a 350 chevy small block motor that he band sawed down to a 2 cylinder!--it used the 2 frontmost cylinders,had the timing cover,2 lobes of the cam,water pump,etc,just like a normal 350!..even had custom "short" valve covers!...I thought it was one of the coolest motors I'd seen on a bike,ever!. :bow: .too bad he didn't chop down a 6-71 blower to go on it--a " 2-71" blower :haha: ..

    I think a supercharger would be more fun..no "turbo lag"..they don't waste much HP,comared to what it would make..I had a "Judson" supercharger on my 40 hp VW beetle many moons ago!..it made a huge difference in power...I didn't retard the timing enough,and melted a piston though..thankfully.on a VW,putting a new piston in isn't as hard as it would be on any other motor.. :crazy:
     

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