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u joint angles

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by big83chevy4x4, Sep 25, 2004.

  1. big83chevy4x4

    big83chevy4x4 3/4 ton status

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    i found something today and wondering if its worth my time to do it.
    i wanna know what the angles are between the different ujoints, mainly the 1310 and the 1350.

    i know there is a big difference in strength but what about angle? can i clearance the yoke or a bigger angle?
     
  2. big83chevy4x4

    big83chevy4x4 3/4 ton status

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    any one? /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  3. k20

    k20 3/4 ton status

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    are you talking about the max operating angle? On pirates site it says a 1310 is 30* and a 1350 is 20* and a 1410 is 28-37*
     
  4. big83chevy4x4

    big83chevy4x4 3/4 ton status

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    yes, the maximum angle. i was hoping it was the other way around /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif, can any one comfirm this?

    what would last longer in a high angle position like say 15.5*, 1350 or 1310
     
  5. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    It depends what you do to it. Anything less than 1 ton rated stuff in this application will likely break before it wears out. Fullsize trucks are no place for 1/2 ton rated u joints.

    As long as you have 1 ton rated stuff and it is not binding it will not fail unless an outside force (ie, rock) causes your driveshaft to fail.

    1350 is bare minimum for u joint sizes IMO for a fullsize rig. Rear driveshaft especially.

    If 15* is the worse angle you've got, 1350 will hold up as long as it doesn't bind. Droop your suspension and make sure.

    Clearancing your yokes will only weaken them. Forget that noise and build drivelines that will work in your application.

    Before I catch all kinds of flak about guys running Saginaw CVs and 1310 joints in their front driveshafts and saying it holds up great, fine, I'm glad to hear that. Those parts are still inferior and will fail eventually under hard use.

    Post up your actual angles for both driveshafts and your motor slope and it shouldn't be a problem to figure out what it'll take to hold up.

    To get motor slope, use your tranny pan. To get tube slope measure both driveshafts right on the tube. These three numbers will probably be enough information to go from there.

    If you have any questions pick up the phone and call Jesse and he'll be glad to explain to you any potential problem areas or solutions to existing problems.

    I'd be willing to bet that there are maybe five people on this board with crappier driveline angles than I have so I have spent a number of hours on mine getting them all dialed in.
     
  6. big83chevy4x4

    big83chevy4x4 3/4 ton status

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    this here is my front driveshaft, the rear is fine, angles are with in 3* of each other(gotta love a long wheelbase)

    the engine is sloped 2* down, the shaft is 18* and the pinion is at 2.5*
    that said the CV is almost binding, 8" down travel at the pinion and the pinion is almost binding, i think they will bind at the same time.

    what scares me is i before the lift the front ujoint was fine, replaced it 2 months before. after 1 wheeling trip after the lift, it has a bit of slop in it. this is the joint that has 15.5* on it at ride height. i don't wanna change ujoints every wheeling trip.

    i have seen the saginaw CV fail in a stock truck with 33s. and i have broke the ujoint at the pinion when i first bought my truck, never had a problem since, but don't wanna take a chance.
     
  7. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    TJ, You have 15* at your front pinion yoke? That is way too much with the C/V joint at the T-case. The pinion U-joint should see 0 degrees, ideally, at normal ride height. In the interest of correct caster, it is OK to have a couple of degrees. Basically, all of the angle in the front driveshaft should be in the C/V joint.

    I think 15* is pushing it for continous operation. It would be OK at full droop.

    There was a post on U-joints a while back that basically said that 1310s and 1330s offered the same strength, but 1330s could take more angle. Likewise, the 1350s and 1410s were the same strength wise, but 1410 could operate at a greater angle.

    However, when you think about it, moving the caps further apart allows the driveshaft to transmit more torque with the same shear force in the caps.
     
  8. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Sounds like a 1 ton CV should be perfect for you. It will not bind at that angle.

    Probably just go to 1410 on the pinion like I did with my front. Then you can be sure yours won't bind (mine is close, not sure if I'm going to shim my pinion up or what to be sure it won't bind)

    Total cost on an all-new 1 ton CV shaft isn't exactly cheap, but it's only about 130% of the cost of an all new 1/2 ton shaft, so it's really a bargin at the price that it costs.

    Actually a wider joint is stronger because of more meat in the cross, although minimal. I'd put 1330 at 10% more strength over 1310, and the same for 1410, about 10% stronger than 1350.
     
  9. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    TJ, You have 15* at your front pinion yoke? That is way too much with the C/V joint at the T-case. The pinion U-joint should see 0 degrees, ideally, at normal ride height. In the interest of correct caster, it is OK to have a couple of degrees. Basically, all of the angle in the front driveshaft should be in the C/V joint.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I disagree. It's a front. It doesn't matter. Get your caster right and make sure your pinion joint isn't binding and you're good to go. There is no reason unless you're building a custom axle housing to try to make sure your pinion angle is perfect on a driveshaft that is locked in 10% of the time or less.
     
  10. mudjunkie 82

    mudjunkie 82 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    From what I read a 1350 is 37.5% stronger than a 1310
     
  11. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    From what I read a 1350 is 37.5% stronger than a 1310

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'd put it at more than that.

    Remember that a joint that is binding will fail catastrophically no matter what size it is.
     
  12. mudjunkie 82

    mudjunkie 82 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    you are 100% right about the binding as far as the 1310 it is rated at 1,600 ft.Pds of torque. the 1350 is rated at 2200 Ft.pds /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  13. big83chevy4x4

    big83chevy4x4 3/4 ton status

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    the caster on my truck should be stock, there are no shims in the spring pack. with the 1410 at the pinion, will it wear out at 15* at ride height? i don't just go slow when i wheel, i also plow snow with this truck and run in 4x4 up to 60 mph.

    i was thinking about cutting and turning the front, but i don't think i could do it my self and im thinking its gonna cost way to much to have done, plus i would still have to run shims.
     
  14. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    you are 100% right about the binding as far as the 1310 it is rated at 1,600 ft.Pds of torque. the 1350 is rated at 2200 Ft.pds /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I wouldn't be concerned about the numbers. The reality is that 1/2 ton stuff will eventually fail in this application where 1 ton stuff will hold up to nearly anything. Cold forged Spicers are said to be 30% stronger than anything else. Those numbers are also for continuous operation, and the ultimate strength before failure is far higher than that.

    Operating any u joint at 15* isn't going to make it last forever. The 1410 will not be binding so it won't break. At that angle I'd say that you could lock your hubs in and drive year round and still get at least two years out of a good quality u joint.

    The 1 ton CV front shaft I used to have was PLENTY capable of being used at high speeds, I drove my truck 80 MPH with the hubs locked in and it never hickuped.

    Your problem is likely either using cheap u joints, contaminating the grease, or they're spinning inside the yoke which will make them wear much faster. Joints don't last forever at 15*, but I'd bet you get 3 years out of a good quality u joint installed in that location.
     
  15. big83chevy4x4

    big83chevy4x4 3/4 ton status

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    all i use are neapco joints. this one is greasable. i guess i will replace the joint and keep a few spares for the winter (just incase they wear out fast). then come spring (or sooner) i think i will call jess and order me a shaft. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

    thanks for all the help guys /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif
     
  16. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    If you're really going to run a 1/2 ton joint in a full size truck, I'd highly suggest you get some Spicer joints in there.
     

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