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*UPDATE* Who all's injected? Finally got it! *FINISHED*

Discussion in '1969-1972 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by K5MONSTERCHEV, Mar 30, 2004.

  1. K5MONSTERCHEV

    K5MONSTERCHEV 1/2 ton status

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    *UPDATE* Who all\'s injected? Finally got it! *FINISHED*

    Ok, next im going to do fuel injection, just wondered who has FI on their first gen? What setup did you use? Whered you get the harness, what about computer? How difficult was it? How does it work, MPG, throttle respones, EVERYHITNG. Ill most likely be using TPI off a camaro/firebird, all input would be great!

    /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif[image][​IMG][/image] /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif

    I still have a few things to deal with, but it already runs better then the carb! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
     
  2. Burt4x4

    Burt4x4 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    MMmmmwaaaaaaaahhhhhaaa
    I have it but have not used it yet.....I can't WAIT to answer all your questions!!hahahaha
    I went for the Plug-N-Play version
    [​IMG]
    http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html
    Good luck /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  3. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    Ask me again in a few months. I'm looking to get a tpi setup pretty quick here. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif
    I'd suggest reading the TPI swappers guide book.. took a lot of the scare out of doing a fuel injection swap.
    I plan to go the same route, TPI off a camaro. I was leaning towards Speed density, but now i have talked to several people they advise going with Mass Air flow as it is more universal to your engine mods like headers and cam.. instead of having to find someone good at burning proms for a speed density setup.
    I'm thinking about trying to cut and splice a factory harness and saving some bucks since i've got some electrical and schematic background, but a painless or street & performance aftermarket harness will make things go much more smoothly.

    If you do some searches here on ck5 there is some good info here from a couple of the guys that have done tpi swaps.. Hossbaby50 and BobK and a few others that are very knowledgeable. Also www.thirdgen.org has a whole forum for TPI and PROM burning... I spent a few hours reading some posts over there today. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    BTW, I didn't see ya at the goodguys car show this weekend. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
    Good luck! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  4. K5MONSTERCHEV

    K5MONSTERCHEV 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Ask me again in a few months. I'm looking to get a tpi setup pretty quick here. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif
    I'd suggest reading the TPI swappers guide book.. took a lot of the scare out of doing a fuel injection swap.
    I plan to go the same route, TPI off a camaro. I was leaning towards Speed density, but now i have talked to several people they advise going with Mass Air flow as it is more universal to your engine mods like headers and cam.. instead of having to find someone good at burning proms for a speed density setup.
    I'm thinking about trying to cut and splice a factory harness and saving some bucks since i've got some electrical and schematic background, but a painless or street & performance aftermarket harness will make things go much more smoothly.

    If you do some searches here on ck5 there is some good info here from a couple of the guys that have done tpi swaps.. Hossbaby50 and BobK and a few others that are very knowledgeable. Also www.thirdgen.org has a whole forum for TPI and PROM burning... I spent a few hours reading some posts over there today. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    BTW, I didn't see ya at the goodguys car show this weekend. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
    Good luck! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Wouldnt Speed density be fine, as long as you weren't running a lumpy cam? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Ill do a search though, and check out that site. I was planning on getting a custom harness and computer anyway. My buddy is very knowledgable about this, and another guy just did TPI, on his Mu$t*ng /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif, but I was curious bout some TRUCKS with it! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif

    As for the GoodGuys, Yeah I was really upset about that. I got that center diff 14 bolt all built, but good 'ol UPS /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif didnt get the Pitman arm here in time, so I was unable to make it /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. I will be at the show in July though. You might have seen the white GMC with a solid axle? /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Thats my buddies.
     
  5. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    Gregory,

    I run a TPI on my first gen. I also run a speed density system. I have had it on now for about 6 years.

    I can't say enought good things about the swap. It was not a huge ordeal. The biggest thing I can tell you is do not try to use a harness out of the donor car. Just plan to purchase a harness aftermarket. I got mine from Street & Preformance. It was well worth the 750 that I paid for it. The other thing if you do use a speed density, you will have to run a stock cam, anything else is a real pain in the ass to program the chip. Remember that TPI uses OBD1 and you cant program the computer without burning the chip. I had to have two chips burned before I got the tuning right. It's anywhere between 150 to 200 per burn. The other thing I can advise you about, is the Fuel Pump. Don't even try to retrofit the stock tank to the fuel pump. Just plan on running an external pump. It easier to get to and easier to modify.

    Other than that, it's really worth the swap. Once it tuned and running, it's low problems, it's really fun, and very dependable.

    You will love the swap, but up front its a huge pain.

    Good luck.

    Rob
     
  6. ljbear

    ljbear Registered Member

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    I'm putting a 97 Vortec in my 71 short bed. I got the entire package out of a wreck with 19k miles on it. I'm using all the 97 accesories, belt system, and computer. I'm getting the harness through Howell Fuel Injection. They offer a pretty nice setup that uses all the factory connectors.
     
  7. K5MONSTERCHEV

    K5MONSTERCHEV 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    First of all, thanks for all the info! /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

    Rob,
    I was planning to get a custom harness all along, but im curious, why wouldnt the stock on work at all? I have been looking into the MAP and MAF systems. Right now im leaning towards MAF simply because, due to the fact that my engines not stock, MAF would be easier to tune, and like you said about the MAP setup, it might take a few times to burn the correct chip. I thnk thats all for now, until I get some more info, or questions.
     
  8. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    Gregory,

    This is my take on it.

    First off, it's not the correct length, and once you start hacking and splicing the stock harness, it's does not like it. The ECU is very sensitive to continuity (SP). In other words, when you cut and splice, and rewire, and tape and solder, it's just not the same as stock or a custom made one. The MAP/MAF and other sensors are very aware of the amout of current flowing through the system and if it's just a little bit off, if screws with the setting.....

    Also, depending on the year donor you are using, it's usually a huge harness, that wont' fit through the firewall.

    You only need to get one wire screwed up and you will spend very large sums of time backtracking to figure out what you did wrong, and cutting away a huge amount of black tape to fine out what it is, and then find out you had a bad connection.

    Just my two cents, I purchased the harness, installed it and had it running on the second day.

    Take it for what it's worth. Just my thoughts on it.

    Whatever you do, study, study, and study some more, and hang out and spend a lot of time on the thridgen.org board, thoese guys know everything about TPI motors.

    Good luck!!!

    Rob
     
  9. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    It's nice to be injected but I'd rather be blown. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  10. K5MONSTERCHEV

    K5MONSTERCHEV 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    Rob,
    I was thinking abou the return line. Howd you do it? I was thinkng about using the line i have now for a return line and runing a higher PSI line. Soo....hows yors?
     
  11. Topdown

    Topdown 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    I got my TBI (pro-jection) installed and its running saweet now... MUCH more power, about the same on mileage... but I seem to have my foot in it a little more now because its fun to feel the power increase. the off-camber use is fricken AWESOME... no more tilt issues. The throttle response is also incredible... one little stab at the throttle and BAM, instant RPM, No lag, no cough.

    All hard lines run from front to rear. The return line that was used on my truck was a stock return line so it just needed the hoses to be replaced but if yours doesnt have one, just run a return line down your frame rail and have it dump into your fuel filler neck... much easier than dropping the tank and all that! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    -Ryan
     
  12. K5MONSTERCHEV

    K5MONSTERCHEV 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    Well I finally got everything, and I mean EVERYHTING at a steal. Its a MAP setup, so im going to get it all hooked up and see how it goes and if it doesnt, then Ill convert it to MAF.
    Now all thats left is everyhitng.
     
  13. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Who all\'s injected?

    I've got the MAF stuff...
    I'm now converting mine to speed density. Picked up the computer and Map sensor... Getting a chip and harness from street and performance in arizona... I'll let you know how that goes. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  14. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected? Finally got it!

    Gregory,

    Sorry about not posting quicker, been real busy at work lately.

    I used the factory lines and just rerouted them. I used MPFI hose to connect to the FI lies out of the TPI. Just make sure you have the MPFI hose clamps, you can't miss them at the parts store they are about 4 time what a standard one is worth. Same thing with the MPFI hose, its about 5 buck a foot depending on the size. Don't use anything else. It won't handle the pressure. When you do connect to the TPI hard line to rubber hose, make sure you have flare on the hard line hose, it will help with it blowing off under pressure.

    Rob
     
  15. K5MONSTERCHEV

    K5MONSTERCHEV 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected? Finally got it!

    Ok next question, what about the VSS?? You guys have them?
     
  16. BobK

    BobK 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected? Finally got it!

    Vss=Vehicle Speed Sensor.
    It tells the ECM if the truck is moving or not.Apparently it helps with idle and sudden stops(prevents stalls)Something like that anyway.

    I don't have it and havn't noticed any ill results
     
  17. K5MONSTERCHEV

    K5MONSTERCHEV 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Who all\'s injected? Finally got it!

    Right I know what it is/does. Just curious if anyone had problems without it, or if it ran better with it, or what?

    The T/A I took the TPI off of didnt even have a VSS. I ll try and run it without then.
    OOPS! I chcked, yes is did, well it has the connector anyway.
     
  18. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Who all\'s injected? Finally got it!

    Just had to butt in, noticed this was the newest thread in this forum. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    I think the real problem on your trucks and using the stock wiring harness from the donor is that your fuse panel isn't set up to run additional stuff.

    On my fuse panel ('86) there are TONS of empty accessory ports on it. With that, some are constant 12V, some are 12V start/run only, some are dimmed with the headlights, etc. On the injection setups, some things need constant 12V, some need run/start 12V only. I can imagine with a glass fuse panel, adding all of these circuits in (I think I have 5 additional on my truck including electric fan fuse) woul be a real hassle, and not "clean" at all.

    I don't know how the aftermarket harnesses do it, but the GM EFI stuff originally was hardwired into the fuse panel. So what you end up dealing with is a bunch of cutting and splicing. On my truck, since the accessory ports on the fuse panel are already protected by a 30amp circuit breaker (too much for all the EFI stuff) I got an auxillary fuse panel for about $5, (online) then took whatever I needed off the stock fuse panel (say for ECM, it needs 12V battery) with one wire, ran that to the auxiallary fuse panel, which allows you to fuse that circuit with whatever amperage fuse is required.

    This used to be a large problem on the aftermarket harnesses, and that is ganging up circuits on a single fuse, or fewer than stock. For instance, there are two injector fuses for TPI. If you gang the injectors up on one fuse, if you blow the fuse, you have to do double the work to find the problem, right? Same would go with any other "ganged up" circuits.

    Not hear to start any arguments, but I don't think cutting and splicing (when done correctly) will have any effect on the system. The GM service manual explicitly shows cutting/splicing to make repairs, and since resistance changes due to wire length, condition, and size, if it was that critical, a shorter (aftermarket) harness would have the same problem as a cut/spliced stock one.

    I'm no electrical engineer, but with as many connectors as GM used (both inline and terminal ends) resistance/current flow can't be that big of an issue, at least in my opinion.

    It better not be anyways, I had to cut/splice a LOT of wires to get the length right to make it fit the vehicle. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I did leave the engine harness pretty much alone, but for all the power feeds, I *had* to change the length (typically add to reach the fuse panel) to make it fit.

    Any injected vehicle has VSS, but depending on the year your donor was, it may have been the DRAC setup, or whatever the other one was they used for awhile. look for the VSS chapter out of their book That will explain VSS to you, and show you the different ones. (formerly) Blazzinor didn't have VSS, then went to VSS, and said he was happy with it, but honestly, some people experience no problems without VSS, while some definitely experience the problems jags that run cite.

    If you are installing TPI on an older engine, (as opposed to 87+ heads) you might want to look into one of the '85-86 intake manifolds, I believe whether MAF or MAP the base will work, you just have to get the blockoff stuff for the 9th injector.
     
  19. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Who all\'s injected? Finally got it!

    Theres some good info on this post..
    I'll have a thread with some pics and part numbers soon...

    I got my wiring harness from street and performance, and installing it was a breeze for the most part. Very good aftermarket harness, now i understand why i paid what i did after hearing about S&P. Tonight i'm about 75% done with my tpi install. So far the biggest pains have been: getting all the connectors through the 1 1/2" hole in the firewall and being carefull not to chafe any wires... finding adapters and getting a T to hook up both my current mechanical oil pressure gauge and the oil pressure switch for the tpi fuel relay.... and trying to get out a pipe plug in the side of the block to install the knock sensor. /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif Drilling and welding the o2 sensor was a bit easier. /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif I am going to be running my speed density setup without the VSS for a week or two.. I've heard with the VSS gas milage will improve, rockcrawling and hard stops won't stall out, and better driveablility...
    I'll let you know of my findings in a few weeks after i get the VSS.. /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
     
  20. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Who all\'s injected? Finally got it!

    Again not too sure on the first gen stuff, but on my '86 body, I was able to take the firewall grommet out for the heater wires, and run the wiring through it, since I hate cutting holes in the truck.

    I depinned the connectors for the heater, slipped them through the grommet, cut the inside of the grommet out so all the new wires would fit through it, then depinned the ECM plug wires one by one, and reconnected it after passing through the grommet. (so as not to lose track) Once they were all through and connected, I was able to slip the connectors through the hole, and use the original grommet.

    Another thing I did was get a newer oil pressure switch/sender. About '91 or so on the trucks, (and about the same time on the F-bodies) GM got smart, and combined the oil pressure switch and sender. The combo piece is smaller than the stock oil pressure sender by quite a bit. This piece wouldn't fit next to the distributor like stock, so I ended up putting it above the oil filter. I grabbed the wiring plug for it out of the wrecking yard, some FWD car as a matter of fact. All three wires were the same color as what were in the F-body harness. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     

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