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***UPDATED 1/8/03***203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

Discussion in 'OffRoad Design' started by FWP, Dec 3, 2002.

  1. FWP

    FWP CRS

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    This happens to a few guys I know as well. The original 203 shifter assembly had a spring loaded detent to eliminate that problem. With a doubler, the shift linkage is usually tied directly to the 203 shift bracket. Anybody come up with a solution, other than the bungee cord trick (which I'm using currently /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)??????

    <font color="red">1/8/03- disconnected the shift linkage from the 203, the only part left on the 203 range shift shaft was the original 2" Z bracket. I drove to work, no problem. On the way home, the second time I had to de-accel, out she popped, right into neutral. I crawled under the truck and shifted it back into hi, and drove home without letting it slack into the coast side.

    Sooo.... It's definitely in the 203, not the shifters or linkage. Tonight I pulled the detent plug and spring out, added 1/4" spacer to the spring, and hooked the linkage back up. Maybe the spring didn't have enough tension, or the detent lever/shift fork tab is worn. We'll see....
     
  2. FWP

    FWP CRS

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    Guess not
     
  3. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    Stephen,

    Have you not heard about his from anyone else that is running the Gen II doubler??

    Sure would like to hear your input on this?

    therobzilla
     
  4. TopOff

    TopOff 1/2 ton status

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    Are you running the original 203 shifter?

    I haven't had any problems with mine. I have used my 203 range (almost everyday) just for fun to go in and out of my driveway... /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    It is SO much easier to use than my previous OEM 203 shifter.
     
  5. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    No I am running the ORD shifters.
     
  6. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    We haven't run into any problems with the 203 linkage at least with our shifter setup. We've run several different shifter arrangements in our vehicles without any real difficulty but they've all been based on the same idea as our production shifter where the lever is separate from the 203 shift lever. That way there's very little potential force on the 203 shifter. The 203 has good internal detents for the range box shifter but it's still pretty easy to shift.

    A couple of things to watch out for are body clearance to the shifter handles and excessively heavy handles attached directly to the 203 shift arm. Either one can lead to problems with the 203 shifting itself.
     
  7. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    Stephen,

    I don't have any clearance issues with the shifters, as I have cut anything that looks like it would bind against the shfters, and the handles I'm using are yours.

    I have been thinking thru the process, and have completely rebuilt the 205 from front to rear, bearings, seals, etc....

    Why does it only happen when the 203 is cold? I don't have this issues when the transfer case is hot, and I have tried both ATF and 90 wt, and same issue, nothing diffrent.

    I am thinking maybe it's the spacing between the 203 gears and the alignment of gears in the doubler adapter? Making the alignment of the sift ring and the sift fork to be off enough for the ring to slip into N. I too agree with you by stating that the 203 has enough detent to keep the 203 in gear.

    What is causing enough pressure to drag the 203 out of gear?

    There is something amiss here and I can't get to the bottom of it.

    The other thing I'm not understanding is why is it only happeing to FWP and my setups?

    We should have another case to check out real soon as Marv is getting closer to having his together.

    Do you have any more you can add to help resolve this issue?

    Anything you have will help.

    Thanks
    therobzilla
     
  8. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    Does it climb out of low range and high range? Can you feel it go part way, like if you push on the lever while it's trying to creep out you'd feel it move back into gear? Or is it one motion?
    I'm wondering if there's not an input gear wear/needle size/shaft bore problem that does let the connection wobble when it's cold but when everything swells up it takes up the "slack".
    New needles are typically a pretty tight fit in the shaft so I'm guessing if this connection is the problem it's input gear wear or needle wear.

    The other weird thing here is that it's never really that cold down there. It's not like we're talking about a problem in sub zero temps here.

    What about the power of the detent spring or profile of the detent lever?


    There are my best guesses at this point.
     
  9. marv_springer

    marv_springer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    Stephen,

    Both trucks just jump out of Hi and have no problems w/ Lo.

    I have been in Rob's truck and witnessed the 203 "wiggling" out of Hi. It reminds me of an 70's truck I drove in high school that had a 4 speed w/ tons of miles, and while driving the tranny would start vibrating out of third gear while driving and ultimately "jump" all the way out....

    Looking at my partially built doubler and thinking about this.... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Couldn't this problem be caused by a misalingment of the 203 output shaft/gear? If it was "mis-located" in the axial direction (too far towards the 205), then the shift collar would effectively be "straddling" the span between the teeth on the main shaft and the teeth on the gear, and if the 2 rows of teeth were a little farther apart than they should be - would it not "jump" out of Hi...?!

    The most curious part about this to me has to do w/ Fred's (FWP) truck. Before installing the doubler, he ran a 203 case and had no problems with it jumping out of Hi. Installing the doubler and 205 seems to have brought on the problem - although he did engineer his own shifter. But, although I've teased him about it on occasion, his shifter looks pretty good, and is definitely free of contact with the body.

    And a similar case (get it.... case /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif... Uh, er, sorry /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) can be made with the 203 range box in Rob's truck. This box served it's duty in my truck for 160k mi before I installed the doubler a couple of years ago. Point is... it never jumped out of hi when it was in my truck.

    I realize I could be all wet on this..... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Please tell me what you think...

    Marv
     
  10. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    I don't think the axial location would cause a problem, even if it's a few thousandths off it's a square engagement and shouldn't matter if the teeth are a bit farther apart. I'll have to take a look at some adapters and cases and see if I can figure anything out.
     
  11. FWP

    FWP CRS

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    I too agree with you by stating that the 203 has enough detent to keep the 203 in gear.


    [/ QUOTE ] Hmm, here's something we should put to the test. If I disconnect the shifter linkage from the 203, and leave the 203 in Hi gear, it should not shift out of gear if the 203 is OK. Otherwise the shifter assy. is the culprit. I think that's a good starting point to isolate the problem. You guys agree?
     
  12. FWP

    FWP CRS

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    Does it climb out of low range and high range? Can you feel it go part way, like if you push on the lever while it's trying to creep out you'd feel it move back into gear?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Hi range only, street driving. Yes, it sneaks, creeps out of hi within 2-3 seconds. If you catch it in time, a very light pull will put it back in gear.

    The 203 that I'm running was the original case in my 75. I did a rebuild 2 years ago, but I did not replace the needle bearings or the input.
    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    What about the power of the detent spring or profile of the detent lever?

    [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand what you mean, please explain. I think you mean the spring and detent inside the case???
     
  13. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    Yeah, I mean the spring and detent plate inside the case, it's basically the mechanism that holds it in gear.

    Disconnecting the shifter gives us one more data point, but make sure you're not driving down the freeway or something so if it does pop out of gear you're not dead in the water!
     
  14. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    Stephen,

    Have you figured anything out more on this yet. The 203 came out of gear once again yesterday while my wife was driving the kids to school in the AM. Although it's not a daily driver for either my wife or myself, once in a while we do have to use it to move people around, and yesterday situiation was rather troubling.

    Any more info???

    Rob
     
  15. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    Try pulling the boot loose, and if you can, try disconnecting the shifter assembly all together. Basically we're trying to isolate as much as we can. We have one other guy that was fine till he bolted the boot to the floor and evidently it pulled a little too hard and it started popping out of gear.
    I've also talked to a few guys with just a stock 203 that had problems and we kind of blew it off by blaming it on the stock shifter but it may not have been.
    Let's see if we can isolate the 203 and if it's coming out of gear with no input from the shifter, I'll try to dream up something else to try.
     
  16. therobzilla

    therobzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Re: 203 range box slips out of HI, any thoughts?

    Not a problem with the shift boot. Have not been running it since I had the problems. I will disconnect the shifter Friday, and run it that way for a while and see how we fair.

    Rob
     
  17. FWP

    FWP CRS

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    Update above
     
  18. sageman

    sageman Registered Member

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    Is the problem associated with the use of the same transmission?!?!
     
  19. dawson444

    dawson444 1/2 ton status

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    Could you explain to me what you did to the detent, where it is etc.?
    I have a 203 in my truck. In stock form. It is converted to part time. If I put it into 4 hi loc when I am wheeling it slips out of gear after no time. Even if I shift it by hand w/ no shifter. It will stay in hi, but not hi loc. Ratchet strap around the center console is working as a bandaid for now, but getting old. Anyone have any ideas?
     
  20. marv_springer

    marv_springer 1/2 ton status

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    Dawson,

    I think your problem is most likely a mal-adjusted or dirty 203 shifter, or you might have interference with the body and the shifter stick.

    Marv
     

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