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Upgrade front brakes on a 10 bolt-- Help!

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by tch777, Sep 18, 2004.

  1. tch777

    tch777 1/2 ton status

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    I saw the SSBC 2 piston caliper upgrade in an article.
    I want better brakes on the Sub.
    Anyone use these calipers? Where to get them at a good price?
    I also saw some Howes 2 piston calipers on Summit but they were for a GM car, said they were 95 bucks each.
    What about an upgraded Master cylinder? Can I put a 3/4 ton on without huge pains?
    I have already decided to get the Performance Friction carbon metallic pads from AutoZone to use.
    Any suggestions? I want good brakes but don't want to mess with the rear disk conversion right now?

    Thanks

    Tim
     
  2. tch777

    tch777 1/2 ton status

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    to the top, Some one has to have some ideas?

    Tim
     
  3. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    It would be hard to put on GM heavy duty brakes without changing your wheels.

    Some say hydroboost improves stopping power quite a bit. The booster is compatible with your existing Master Cylinder. You need the pump, hoses and booster from a 1-ton with this option.
     
  4. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Get rid of those off brand brake pads and buy some good, name brand semi metallics.
     
  5. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Get rid of those off brand brake pads and buy some good, name brand semi metallics.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Semi-metallics need heat to work at their best. Fine for a sports car that can keep them hot, not so great for a 4x4 that likely won't. In this application you want a pad compound with a high Friction Coefficient at low temp. That's not a semi-metallic, that's something like the Raybestos "Brute Stop", wilwood's 'D' compound, or wilwood's 'E' compound.

    BTW, Perf. Friction is a name brand.


    TS
    --former Brake Engineer
     
  6. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

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    got a pair of statix for a IFS 10b front- Dont know if it fits the 10b SFA. PM me if your interested.
     
  7. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Performance Friction is an Autozone trademark.

    Semi metallics will get all the heat they need when you step on the brakes. Don't use "fleet" pads, just regular semi metallics.

    Performance Friction brakes require more heat to work correctly than any semi metallic I have ever used.

    There is no question in my mind that buying a name brand brake product means something.
     
  8. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

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    The only exception to this rule (I think anyways) is if you consistantly tow a heavy load, over hilly terrain. Those performance friction pads sure come in handy!
     
  9. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The only exception to this rule (I think anyways) is if you consistantly tow a heavy load, over hilly terrain. Those performance friction pads sure come in handy!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is what fleet grade semi metallic pads are for.

    Leave race car friction on race cars. Trucks work very well with semi metallics and I think it'll be a long time before anyone improves on that.

    If, "Carbon metallic" really was superior, Bendix, Wagner, Raybestos, Dana, etc. would be selling them.

    Reguardless, when crappy off brand pads get old, the friction tends to seperate from the backing plate prematurely. I have never seen a set of Raybestos pads that I sold that were anything but worn out after hard service where they were installed correctly and the hardware was working as designed. I really think this makes a huge difference and it really shows the quality to me.

    My truck only gets the best parts I can find, and I'm real pleased with the performance and noise free operation of the premium grade Raybestos I'm running right now.
     
  10. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    booster do nothing to increase braking performance
    you need to specify what it is that needs improvement
    do you boil the fluid?
    do you warp rotors?
    pretty much the only ways to improve braking is to make the rotor diameter larger and or increase its mass, same with calipers
    more pistons is just a way to get the pressure spread over a larger footprint of the pads unless you are converting to a fixed caliper design
    more mass to absorb heat is a good thing
     
  11. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    I agree with you completely on the booster thing.

    As long as you've got the balls to push the pedal down, the booster doesn't help. Hydroboost will provide more power assist and that's about it. I have it on my tow rig and I think my trail truck stops better on account of having 4 wheel discs. I like how easy it is to get on the brakes hard in my tow rig though.

    Booster is there to help you step on the pedal, not to try to increase stopping performance.

    Basic idea of any brake is to turn rotational motion into heat and get rid of the heat as quickly as possible. Only modifications that can pull this off will increase stopping performance.

    I'm not sure why you are having problems though, the brakes on these trucks are more than sufficent to stop the load these trucks are rated for and then some.
     
  12. 88Silverado

    88Silverado 1/2 ton status

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    I run the PF Pads on my Trans-AM, my 71 ElCamino (when I use to run the local canyons with it) the Blazer and they're on my 35' motorhome for the past 5 years. They work very well when hot. Nothing worse than brake fade when your trying to stop something. Not so good when they're cold but it dont take much to get brakes hot.

    BTW, Performance Friction is NOT an Autozone Trademark. They have been in business way before Autozone came to be and they are a major brand. Read the company Timeline Performance Friction
     
  13. tch777

    tch777 1/2 ton status

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    If you have a master cylinder that is bypassing some fluid then you can lose braking performance right?
    The brakes on my Sub are 2 years old and are from Pep Boys they were their top of the line Ceramics. When new they worked pretty good. But they still would not lock up the tires, and I have heard of a bunch of guys who can lock up their 35s on their Subs. The pedal is not very firm but if I pump the brakes it is firmer and the Sub stops better.
    I didn't mention a booster so I am not sure where that came from or where to go with that. But it you have a master cylinder that has a larger bore doesn't that provide a bigger volume of fluid, which could help brake performance?
    The write up on the dual piston calipers stated that they added 40% better braking.
    The rotors do feel warped now, they were new 2 years ago too.
    What I mean by better braking is being able to cramp on the brakes and stop. Even having to back off a little to stop a skid. Now I stomp on the brakes and pump and pray to stop, well not that bad but close, we are at the point now that we rarely drive the Sub. I am taking it in this week for a mechanic diagnostic at a shop I trust no more Pep Boys or other cheapy shops for me.
    What I want to know here is what is the best braking system or parts for the Sub that don't break the bank.
    I drive into the mountains with this vehicle too so I need brakes that can take the heat of long decents and not fade too.

    Tim
     
  14. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    so currently you have a bad master or air in the system
    larger bore master will change pedal effort and again not really effect brake performance over a factory master that is in good condition
    get your stuff working properly before you worry about hotroding it
     
  15. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    BTW, Performance Friction is NOT an Autozone Trademark. They have been in business way before Autozone came to be and they are a major brand.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Carquest, Napa, and others manufacture their own line of brake pads too. They even have their own factories! Their advertisments say so! And it says Napa on the box! /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  16. Triaged

    Triaged 1/2 ton status

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    1) Sounds like you have some air in the system. Bleed it till all the air is out.

    2) A larger MC will give more volume at a lower pressure...the opposit that you want!

    3) Swap out the crapy pads for some good ones. I've had good luck on mine with Raybestos Brute Stop pads.

    4) Make sure the rear brakes are adjusted and that the wheel cylinders arn't leaking (you have to pry back the dust seal to see if they are leaking unless it is real bad).
     
  17. tch777

    tch777 1/2 ton status

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    Thank you for the information.
    The main thing I was trying to do was figure out possible upgrades to parts that I may have to replace to get the Sub braking the way it should.

    For example I know I need new brake pads, so I want to put the best ones on it.
    If I need new Rotors what is better than the stock ones.
    I think the Master cylinder is bad so if I have to replace it, what is an upgrade? I will just replace it with a stock one if it is bad now thanks to the responses from you all.
    What about the Calipers has anyone gone to a dual piston?

    Thanks

    Tim
     

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