Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

Vortec Head Umbrella Seals??

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by dyeager535, Aug 7, 2002.

  1. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Roy WA
    Anyone know who makes umbrella valve guide seals that are a "drop in" for the Vortec heads? The Vortec guides I have are over 1/2" diameter, closer to 9/16". (no dial calipers here) "stock" seals are red on exhaust, black on intake, have a steel outer shell (probably just as a retainer) and a small spring to keep the seal tight against the valve stem.

    http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp?ListHistoryID=-644070045

    Shows the diameters, but I really doubt .53 seals will fit a guide that appears to be about .55". Hopefully Vortec umbrella seals ARE made by someone!
     
  2. Redfrog

    Redfrog 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Posts:
    753
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    IL
    I went through this last week... What ever you do don't call a dealership!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did.... and they wanted $4.32 for the intake side and $8.34 for exhaust let's do the math on that real quick 8x$4.32=$34.56..8x$8.34=$66.72
    $66.72+$34.56= $101.28 THAT IS JUST STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Sorry I still can't believe that they wanted that much. And also it was going to be a week before they could get them

    sorry for vearing of the subject. I ended up getting them at Carquest for $19 and something after tax for 16 of them
    and got them at 8AM the next morning
    they were the same between int and exh. I believe that Victor rienz (sp) was the manufacturer..I don't remember right now and the package is about 20 miles from me... I might be able to get the part# tomarrow if you need it

    hope this is the info you were looking for.. they are not a umbrella but they are the factory type with the steel sleeve
     
  3. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Roy WA
    It would be a major help if you could get that number! I called the local speed shop and spoke with a friend, and he called the stock ones "umbrella" so I know he won't be any help : )

    I'll try looking it up online though, maybe I'll get lucky and find them.

    The ones you bought were "drop ons" with the stock valves/guides, and seemed to fit the guides well? (and still talking Vortec right?) Thats the only issue I can see using stock Vortec valves, springs, and guides, is if they "stick" to the guide like the stock ones..the stock ones are a real hassle to get off! Too bad they seem to start leaking at 50K miles or so.
     
  4. Redfrog

    Redfrog 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Posts:
    753
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    IL
    ok the part# on the package was 16 B457-96 if they can't find them with that try B457-96.. That is the Carquest part#
    they ARE THE STOCK TYPE ONES with the metal piece. I looked everywhere for a "drop on umbrella seal" and I could not find one. The only advantage I could see to a stock one is the fact that they have a raised area on the inside of the metal to help make sure they did not come off like I have seen umbrella seals do.

    You might try to send a E-mail to FEL-PRO I had read some where that they were going to or already do make the plain old drop on seal for the vortec's but I looked off and on for 4 months at different places on-line and local and I could not locate them

    hope this helps
     
  5. Diesel Dan

    Diesel Dan 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Posts:
    798
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Warren, Ohio
    If the heads are off have the guides machined down and the spring pockets opened up. Stock will only allow for .450" lift before the retainer will hit the seal. It cost me $50 for both heads to have machined. Could use regular seals and springs for larger lift as well.
     
  6. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Roy WA
    Yeah I noticed comp cams sells the tool to do both at the same time.

    I'm running .452 max lift, and I've known others to use .480 on stock springs, so I'm not real worried about that.

    I'm just surprised no one makes umbrella seals, without having one in my hand, I can't see why reaming is necessary at all...its already machined, so why do it all over again?

    The stock seals can't be any thinner than Umbrellas, its probably just the guide diameter being "unstandard" thats the problem, and all that means is make the seal larger! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  7. Blazer_Boy

    Blazer_Boy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2000
    Posts:
    1,669
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sioux City, IA, USA
    I've got .447/.462 on stock springs. I've wound it to about 5,500 RPM and it ran smooth as top all the way to it. Man, small blocks started to sound real cool after 5,000 rpm. I just dropped of my 69-80 Fel-Pro kit off at the machine shop and had a set of assembled heads a few days later when I was assembling my motor there. He had me take off the old seals too while I was goofing around over there. Kind of a do some of your own work to get some off the bill. Yeah, I know I'm alot help, but I know the type of seals you're talking about and I don't remember any incidents during assembly. The only thing I remember was going WTF when I pulled the funky looking intake gaskets out of the box.
     
  8. Diesel Dan

    Diesel Dan 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Posts:
    798
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Warren, Ohio
    I purchased a crate L31 vortec long block for a guys truck. I pulled the heads off the new motor to check valve seal clearance. I installed the "Hot Cam" kit from GM, .525" lift with 1.6 roller rockers.

    At approx .460" lift the bottom of the retainer will touch the top of the seals, the springs did not experience coil bind. IIRC, they call for atleast .010" clearance between the retainer and seal. Yes the motor will run, seals will not last with a interference fit and oil consumption will shortly follow. The machine shop also lowered the height of the guides for more clearance.
     
  9. Blazer_Boy

    Blazer_Boy 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2000
    Posts:
    1,669
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sioux City, IA, USA
    GM's 350 H.O. crate motor with L31 heads has .435/.460 lift. I have .447/.462 lift and 3,000 miles on mine so far and oil consumption is nill.

    Boy I hope a machinist or similar type reads this post and tells us exactly what can and can't be done. Now I'm all worried that my seals are wrong, or I have too much lift. I guess I can take some comfort that it mine runs awesome and nothing unusual stuck out when I was adjusting the valves.
     
  10. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2000
    Posts:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Roy WA
    It doesn't seem that if you can run .460 lift and have interference, that .480 would clear!

    I know a guy that was/is running .480 lift, now I'm curious if the heads are different in that area based on casting #? It just seems that if .460 touches, .480 would almost be hitting the guide!

    I'm not questioning what you found, I'm curious how the heck someone is running .480, and why GM ran .460 in some cases, unless perhaps they used different seals in that application?
     

Share This Page