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Welded 10b front

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Pure Insanity, Jan 26, 2003.

  1. Pure Insanity

    Pure Insanity 1/2 ton status

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    I know I know....I SHOULDNT do it, but I MUST get the front pulling hard for an upcoming "thing" where Ill be following guys on 44s. I really want PI to hold its own and make a good showing. For a change PI will be one of the "smaller" rigs. Itll only be locked in in serious slop. HMMMMMM, then again itll be locked the whole trip I guess, but only have power to it in slop I should say. I dont see me jumping out every few feet to lock and unlock the hubs.

    I have another set of 10 bolt sides and spiders to replace it w/ when and if I take it back out.

    I guess what I am needing to know is will the sides and spiders come back out after being welded together? I wont be welding them to the carrier.

    OK the more I think about it maybe I shouldnt weld it and let the front spin 1 tire. Ill be welding the rear for sure.

    What are the odds of the front surviving? Id hate to break and be out early in the day.
     
  2. zcarczar

    zcarczar 1/2 ton status

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    well if you have to weld it make sure you bring lots of extra parts. Im almost positive you will break a shaft our u joint at least once.
     
  3. MJB774X

    MJB774X 1/2 ton status

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    all you have to weld is one spider to one side gear and that will lock it all up( so you will be able to get the gears out of the carrier) downside is it will be stronger to weld both sides, but thats what the oxy/acetelyn univesal tool is for /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  4. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I think it's gonna break Steve...

    Are you locked in the rear?

    Rene
     
  5. Twiz

    Twiz 1/2 ton status

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    Stay off the throttle...

    er.. forgot who I was talking to...

    It'll prolly snap... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  6. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Stay off throttle <<<one hand

    Keep up with the guys on 44's in the mud <<<other hand

    *plugs ears* KABOOM!



    Rene
     
  7. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    If you're gonna be playing in the mud, then it might last one day. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif If it breaks, then you might not be too proud of your magazine pics. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
     
  8. Pure Insanity

    Pure Insanity 1/2 ton status

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    The rear will be welded. Hopefully Ill get it apart this week and have it back together by next week. (Thats the beauty of a FF axle, you can gut it out and still roll it around the shop. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif)

    I think after thinking about it more since the post I better leave the front alone and just count on the rear and 1 tire in the front going. I really dont care if I break the axle or joint as long as I can get it home, since PI isnt my DD anymore. But if it takes out a ball joint on its way out and I have to hold up the whole day Ill be hated. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    Stay out of the throttle...BAH! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif Ill PM you 2 and tell ya whats going on.....

    Well I am instant mess. Eric right now, Rene do you have AIM? Whats your name if ya do?
     
  9. Pure Insanity

    Pure Insanity 1/2 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    If it breaks, then you might not be too proud of your magazine pics.

    [/ QUOTE ] AHH you read the clue in the other post I made....Its not FULLY out of the bag yet so I cant say too much. The guy who set it up is afraid of a total cluster **** of people showing up if any locals find out, So I cant say when or where but its supposed to be in a few weeks.
     
  10. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    Have fun dude!!

    Rene
     
  11. 6.2Blazer

    6.2Blazer 1/2 ton status

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    I'm not quite sure why people think a 10-bolt axle will just spontaneously explode when the spiders are welded. There is really no reason that welded spider gears would cause any more stress on the axle shaft or u-joints than something like a Detroit locker or Lock-right. Of course if you want to beat the truck hard than there is a higher chance of breaking something in the front with a locker.

    If you do decide to weld it, then WELD IT! Don't try to skimp by and make it so you can get the spider and side gears back out. I have seen people try to do this and when the weld breaks it can send chunks through the entire rear end thus taking out the gears, bearings, etc... I always suggest welding the side gears to the spiders, and the side gears to the case.

    Overall though, if you want to run a difficult trail that's above the capability of your truck and run with better equipped vehicles, than just realize that you might just have to use a tow strap every once in a while. Too much pride in your vehicle will cause broken parts. In our club the unwritten policy is you don't raz people if they get stuck or take the bypass (well, besides a little good natured teesing), we would rather spend 2 minutes pulling somebody out of a tough spot versus 2 hours fixing a vehicle.
     
  12. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    I am with 6.2 on this! Weld it and go. Hell if you get worried, unlock a hub.... But at least you will still have the option of being fully locked!
     
  13. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    I'm not quite sure why people think a 10-bolt axle will just spontaneously explode when the spiders are welded.

    [/ QUOTE ] 3 reasons. 1) Lots of 10 bolts explode without any welding involved. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif 2) PI is running 38's, which is already pushing his luck pretty hard for a 10-bolt. 3) He's talking about the front axle, which is much easier to break when it's locked or welded. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif When the wheels are cranked to the side then the axle shafts, ring gear and carrier are under a lot more stress than a rear axle. The 2 front tires attempt to travel in very different arcs during a turn, being welded prevents them from travelling at different speeds, so the tires become the differential. If they don't slip, something goes bang. When you're lucky it's just an axle U-joint. When you aren't, something expensive breaks inside the pumpkin. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  14. 6.2Blazer

    6.2Blazer 1/2 ton status

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    You made the comment that "it MIGHT last one day"........well it might only last one day before you break something but it also might last a couple of years, even with 38's. It all depends on how you drive. If everything else is in good shape, you should be able to run in the mud fairly reliable...just keep the wheels pointed straight as much as possible and be halfway reasonable with the pedal.

    I'm also quite aware that people break a lot of 10-bolts, but I don't think that welding one will make a huge difference. Your comment makes it seem like it will grenade as soon as it is shifted into 4wd. As far as turning with no differential, I'm quite aware of how it works. Again, if everything else is in good shape you will probably never break anything just because you are turning even if the front is welded IF you are under light throttle and don't have one sides tires wedged against a rock or something. It usually requires at least a moderate throttle application to break a shaft or u-joint in addition to some type of resistance against the tire. Under this type of condition something like a Detroit or Lock-right would be fully engaged anyway so there is really no difference.

    Now, just to make sure I'm clear I wouldn't choose to have my front diff welded (I personally run a lock-right in the front). My reason for this is that in 2wd with the hubs still locked in, a Lock-right or Detroit has very little if any effect on steering. This way I can slip the t-case in 2wd on the trail and it helps me make sharper turns, with a welded front diff it still greatly affects steering even in 2wd unless you stop and unlock the hubs.
     
  15. bigmack

    bigmack 1/2 ton status

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    That's one of the things I like about my front end being welded, I can lock either or both hubs. If I just need a little extra traction then I just lock one side, but I have the option of locking both and having a "true" 4 wheel drive (my rear is welded too). I was worried alot when the front was still open about the spider gears exploding with all of that one side spinning then the other crap. I also like knowing that if I break and axle or joint that I can just unlock that side and still have the front end pulling with one side just like it they do when they are open.
     
  16. FL84K5

    FL84K5 1/2 ton status

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    I've gone out on runs with him. I'd give it a day, maybe less. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  17. MUD JUNKIE

    MUD JUNKIE 1/2 ton status

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    steve thats alot of stress on that little front end,but hell if you want to go ahead /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gifI'd wait till the 60 goes up front then lock it,have you ever drivin a truck that has a welded dana44? its sucks bad!! you can turn the wheels worth a damm! put it this way,would you rather get stuck and spend a little time getting pulled out?
    or would you rather break somthing and spend hours fixing it on the trail with everyone waiting on YOU??
    its your call /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  18. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    At least 2 people on this site have had their 10-bolt explode in their driveway. I've seen 10-bolts and 44's break while pretty much idling up a trail. The major damage had probably happened earlier, but little stuff still breaks pretty easy when it's pushed past its design limits. 38 inch tires are way past those limits. PI has stated before in other posts that he has managed to wind his engine up to 7,800 RPM. You can't do that with a stock small block, even if you leave it in neutral and lay a brick on the gas pedal. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif So you can bet that his motor has some major stones. Mud is much more forgiving than rock, but it doesn't repeal the laws of physics.

    A welded 10 bolt might last 10 minutes and it might last 10 years, but I'd bet money that it will fail much closer to the 10-minute mark than to the 10 year mark if wheeled regularly. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
     
  19. Pure Insanity

    Pure Insanity 1/2 ton status

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    Thanx for the input yall. Im still weighing the pros and cons of it. I am too afraid of busting it early in the day and ruining the reason I am wanting to get locked. I will prob end up leaving it open and letting 1 tire let it fly. When the tranny shifts, it hits HARD! (which BTW I dropped the tranny at the shop to be gone thru again, and further beefed, today at lunch and Ill be odering the stall converter later this week)

    Harry you have one heck of a memory!

    Jason (FL84) is right, having wheeled w/ me several times and seeing what a nut bag I turn into when theres mud involved. For example.... And no, thats not dead trees in the background, its Fla its all green, thats mud about 10+ feet above the roof from the front wheels. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I was tachin about 6000 and JUST hit second gear when Jason snapped that pic. But then I see this pic and remember why I want the front pulling. /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif Note the front left just sitting there.

    Decisions, Decisions.........

    I think I have too heavy of a foot to weld up the front. Check that, I know I do. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

    Now I gotta convince my dad that welding the 14 wont kill it. I talked to him briefly at lunch and he was all "No you dont want to do that. Itll just cause you problems..." Considering what he does to help me keep PI alive and running I hate to go against his advice even when I know itll be OK. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    Do I take the chance? Or do I not? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
     
  20. DesertDueler

    DesertDueler 1/2 ton status

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    Well I say go for it. I have almost always had a locked front 10 bolt. I had one in my rockcrawler on 35s, and had no problems. And I have a lockright in the front of my burb on 38.5s and so far so good. Stock front axles down to the u-joints. The only problems I have had were breaking a right rear axle on a 10 bolt, breaking stock spider gears in a rear 10 bolt, and breaking a mini spool in a 12 bolt. I had really had on rear axles for some reason.

    Dan /forums/images/graemlins/burb.gif
     

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